From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06937158042 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 23:11:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 84BB5E096D; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 23:10:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D141E0951 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 23:10:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e3808e94734so1238703276.1 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 15:10:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1731625852; x=1732230652; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:from:references:to:subject:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=COZu6b1hy/rhhqaoLnlO80FXRpVBIuaG07i6MYLNaZA=; b=kO4x9ZwrjQUNNbmofOPnlDhBJG/QqVR5HLAjIxWl52qLF7rJELsN1+C7yr8CF1/3JO Kwa24+woH5UCE0x6eKP7M2SCuSqulRLx72hgKbdC1kiv1ck+O4m5ZpntrouNneEg0ER1 O3bb60bfXuyNvvqDJhraUGswQ0fK+GthFWLCvV/neiq7p2HD44QqbEFlzI33V02GRM8n OOO47ldXvZTBMoSIuyeR8O/NWECtmNY1VbCGOBTOYUyht8tdg101G8eCrf4S/Z8tRtpc nFMtmMry8o+HCz22n8t64WJ/qagCa43DmXHeev3zz8np9jMrOwoQgUGUv8zIni26j+n/ WQcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1731625852; x=1732230652; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:from:references:to:subject:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=COZu6b1hy/rhhqaoLnlO80FXRpVBIuaG07i6MYLNaZA=; b=ghpBTkQIbPQ7wFJzHtWe3c+Z1qyHWyF2Nijhooy3CybjmjdfkazTiD6SAEio9NR3Hp vjUEJ8GK1vRi7aQgDUWcXAZFqgFitd7q8G8+0Nt5ATzvdcE00r6i4R94R9qeySqiyPTC fRbDkyVCC0oA25FgEHvz5rNCJCXf/0YRvgu10ouyxsaRTnAvHkPL+WDvZkadrsv4Ycpx gjlBDMCbCqbkHzOUxvgu1HmUjIDklWt4Bo4wwFljoV5UxPBz1yxbHalg9FFtREH6ev9g gJIHK3akHjWGrqfjTOeLJ3N8H/dTOx6EOeAnwZ7e51tBEzYBaF0I4SWb6gQ2mcGKV7hJ dfzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxWD3GLPVP1Fb5ahlaa6zYG8q+9B9BGZh7R/QTkZUIXTV7dpR7C A5sAqG5upd8gEtkOpCAeepyF+LgJ5M7DRVhIWe8ZZ5HE9O49es04 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEDvJ62VT5RDphe0ZG+X70sYm8JoeMTBS+1Va8l+1FQd6s3P643FCqfvZlny/Jo4A3BBUXqJw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:4d88:b0:6ec:b108:e5ce with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6ee55cbbf33mr10008797b3.28.1731625851862; Thu, 14 Nov 2024 15:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.10] ([92.119.19.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-6ee440742fesm4734277b3.65.2024.11.14.15.10.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Nov 2024 15:10:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate hard drives with dual actuators. To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <1879585.atdPhlSkOF@rogueboard> <5835905.DvuYhMxLoT@rogueboard> <6461ae0f-3a98-6325-9915-3c78b0df237a@gmail.com> From: Dale Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: <63e3fac6-1758-b5c2-2c92-312d64d547e3@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 17:10:50 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.19 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 5354afcf-0778-4844-9aa9-8e6431016c3f X-Archives-Hash: 3dd2e4400ecec47adf457fc364187c1f Rich Freeman wrote: > On Thu, Nov 14, 2024 at 3:33 PM Dale wrote: >> >> I've had a Seagate, a Maxtor from way back and a Western Digital go bad. This is one reason I don't knock any drive maker. Any of them can produce a bad drive. > ++ > > All the consumer drive manufacturers are in a super-price-conscious > market. For the most part their drives work as advertised, and > basically all of them have made a model with an abysmal failure rate > at some point. I think Backblaze still publishes their stats and I > don't think any manufacturer stood out when it comes to these cheaper > consumer drives. The enterprise stuff probably is more reliable, but > for HDD I don't think it is worth it - just use RAID. > > I've personally been trying to shift towards solid state. Granted, it > is about double the price of large 5400RPM drives, but the performance > is incomparable. I've also been moving more towards used enterprise > drives with PLP/etc and where I can find the drive endurance info on > the ebay listing. You can typically pay about $50/TB for an > enterprise SSD - either SATA or NVMe. You'll pay a bit more if you > want a high capacity drive (U.2 16+TB or whatever). That's in part > because I've been shifting to Ceph which is pretty IOPS-sensitive. > However, it is nice that when I add/replace a drive the cluster > rebuilds in an hour at most with kinda shocking network IO. > > I'll use cheap consumer SATA/M.2 SSDs for OS drives that are easily > reimaged. I'll use higher performance M.2 for gaming rigs (mostly > read-oriented), and back it up. Be aware that the consumer write > benchmarks only work for short bursts and fall to a fraction of the > advertisement for sustained writes - the enterprise write benchmarks > reflect sustained writes and you can run at that speed until the drive > dies. > The biggest downside to the large drives available now, even if SMART tells you a drive is failing, you likely won't have time to copy the data over to a new drive before it fails.  On a 18TB drive, using pvmove, it can take a long time to move data.  I think the last time I did it, it took like two days.  Usually SMART is more like a 24 hour warning.  Of course with some failures, you get no warning at all.  SMART can't detect all modes of failure.  Wol has a good point too.  What they trying to do is compete with SSD if they can.  SSD, NVME and such are pricey if you need to store bulk amounts of data.  I don't even want to think what it would cost to put all my 100TBs or so on SSD or NVME drives.  WOW!!!  Dale :-)  :-)