Michael wrote:
On Thursday 14 November 2024 17:00:07 GMT Dale wrote:
Michael wrote:
On Wednesday 13 November 2024 23:10:10 GMT Dale wrote:
Howdy,

One of my PVs is about 83% full.  Time to add more space, soon anyway.
I try not to go past 90%.  Anyway, I was looking at hard drives and
noticed something new.  I think I saw one a while back but didn't look
into it at the time.  I'm looking at 18TB drives, right now.  Some new
Seagate drives have dual actuators.  Basically, they have two sets of
heads.  In theory, if circumstances are right, it could read data twice
as fast.  Of course, most of the time that won't be the case but it can
happen often enough to make it get data a little faster.  Even a 25% or
30% increase gives Seagate something to brag about.  Another sales tool.

 Some heavy data users wouldn't mind either.

My question is this.  Given they cost about $20 more, from what I've
found anyway, is it worth it?  Is there a downside to this new set of
heads being added?  I'm thinking a higher failure rate, more risk to
data or something like that.  I think this is a fairly new thing, last
couple years or so maybe.  We all know how some new things don't work
out.

Just looking for thoughts and opinions, facts if someone has some.
Failure rate compared to single actuator drives if there is such data.
My searched didn't help me find anything useful.

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)
I don't know much about these drives beyond what the OEM claims.  From
what I read, I can surmise the following hypotheses:

These drives draw more power from your PSU and although they are filled
with helium to mitigate against higher power/heat, they will require
better cooling at the margin than a conventional drive.

Your system will use dev-libs/libaio to read the whole disk as a single
SATA drive (a SAS port will read it as two separate LUNs).  The first 50%
of LBAs will be accessed by the first head and the last 50% by the other
head.  So far, so good.

Theoretically, I suspect this creates a higher probability of failure.  In
the hypothetical scenario of a large sequential write where both heads
are writing data of a single file, then both heads must succeed in their
write operation. The cumulative probability of success of head A + head B
is calculated as P(A⋂B).  As an example, if say the probability of a
successful write of each head is 80%, the cumulative probability of both
heads succeeding is only 64%:

0.8 * 0.8 = 0.64

As long as I didn't make any glaring errors, this simplistic thought
experiment assumes all else being equal with a conventional single head
drive, but it never is.  The reliability of a conventional non-helium
filled drive may be lower to start with.  Seagate claim their Exos 2
reliability is comparable to other enterprise-grade hard drives, but I
don't have any real world experience to share here.  I expect by the time
enough reliability statistics are available, the OEMs would have moved on
to different drive technologies.

When considering buying this drive you could look at the market segment
needs and use cases Seagate/WD could have tried to address by developing
and marketing this technology.  These drives are for cloud storage
implementations, where higher IOPS, data density and speed of read/write
is
desired, while everything is RAID'ed and backed up.  The trade off is
power
usage and heat.

Personally, I tend to buy n-1 versions of storage solutions, for the
following reasons:

1. Price per GB is cheaper.
2. Any bad news and rumours about novel failing technologies or unsuitable
implementations (e.g. unmarked SMRs being used in NAS) tend to spread far
and wide over time.
3. High volume sellers start offering discounts for older models.

However, I don't have a need to store the amount of data you do.  Most of
my drives stay empty.  Here's a 4TB spinning disk with 3 OS and 9
partitions:

~ # gdisk -l /dev/sda | grep TiB
Disk /dev/sda: 7814037168 sectors, 3.6 TiB
Total free space is 6986885052 sectors (3.3 TiB)

HTH
Sounds like my system may not can even handle one of these.  I'm not
sure my SATA ports support that stuff.
I think your PC would handle these fine.


It sounds like this is not something I really need anyway.
Well, this is more to the point.  ;-)
 

After all, I'm already spanning my data
over three drives.  I'm sure some data is coming from each drive.  No
way to really know for sure but makes sense. 

Do you have a link or something to a place that explains what parts of
the Seagate model number means?  I know ST is for Seagate.  The size is
next.  After that, everything I find is old and outdated.  I looked on
the Seagate website to but had no luck.  I figure someone made one,
somewhere.  A link would be fine.
This document is from 2011, I don't know if they changed their nomenclature 
since then.

https://www.seagate.com/files/staticfiles/docs/pdf/marketing/st-model-number-cheat-sheet-sc504-1-1102us.pdf


Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 
The only Seagate 7200RPM disk I have started playing up a month ago.  I now 
have to replace it.  :-(


Yea, I found that one too.  I see drives with letters that are not listed under Segment.  They got new stuff, or changed letters to trick folks.  I emailed the company I usually buy drives from, they do server stuff, but haven't heard back yet.  Could be, there isn't one for new drives.  Could be they there to make it look like they mean something but don't, again, to trick folks. 

I've had a Seagate, a Maxtor from way back and a Western Digital go bad.  This is one reason I don't knock any drive maker.  Any of them can produce a bad drive.  What matters, if they stand behind it and make it good or not.  It's one thing that kinda gets on my nerves about SMR.  It seems, sounds, like they tried to hide it from people to make money.  Thing is, as some learned, they don't do well in a RAID and some other situations.  Heck, they do OK reading but when writing, they can get real slow when writing a lot of data.  Then you have to wait until it gets done redoing things so that it is complete.  I still have that SMR drive for a backup.  It completes the backup pretty quick, if it isn't much data, but after it is done, it does that bumpy thing for a lot longer than the copy process does.  I wish I never bought that thing.  The one good thing, I can unmount it and unhook the SATA cable while it finishes.  All it needs is power.  Still annoying tho.

Think I'll try for a 18TB drive with one actuator.  Oh, some info on my data storage.  This doesn't include backup drives. 


root@Gentoo-1 / # dfc
FILESYSTEM               (=) USED      FREE (-)  %USED   USED AVAILABLE  TOTAL MOUNTED ON              
/dev/root                [===-----------------]  11.4%  24.6G    348.0G 392.7G /                       
devtmpfs                 [--------------------]   0.0%   0.0B     10.0M  10.0M /dev                    
tmpfs                    [=-------------------]   0.0%   1.7M     25.1G  25.1G /run                    
efivarfs                 [=========-----------]  43.2%  50.3K     72.7K 128.0K +ys/firmware/efi/efivars
shm                      [=-------------------]   0.0% 136.0K     62.9G  62.9G /dev/shm                
/dev/nvme0n1p2           [==------------------]   6.4% 137.5M      9.2G   9.8G /boot                   
/dev/nvme0n1p4           [=====---------------]  20.9%  18.8G    139.3G 176.1G /var                    
+v/mapper/home2-home--lv [=====---------------]  21.5%   1.4T      5.7T   7.2T /home                   
/dev/nvme0n1p1           [=-------------------]   0.0% 152.0K      2.0G   2.0G /efi                    
+ev/mapper/datavg-datalv [=================---]  83.3%  34.6T      6.9T  41.5T /home/dale/Desktop/Data 
tmpfs                    [=-------------------]   0.0%   4.0K     70.0G  70.0G /var/tmp/portage        
tmpfs                    [=-------------------]   0.0%  44.0K     12.6G  12.6G /run/user/1000          
/dev/mapper/crypt        [===============-----]  73.9%  34.8T     12.3T  47.1T /home/dale/Desktop/Crypt
/dev/mapper/6tb-main     [=============-------]  61.2%   3.3T      2.1T   5.4T /mnt/6tb-main           
SUM:                     [===============-----]  72.7%  74.2T     27.6T 102.0T
root@Gentoo-1 / # pvs -O vg_name
  PV         VG       Fmt  Attr PSize  PFree
  /dev/sde1  datavg   lvm2 a--  12.73t    0
  /dev/sdc1  datavg   lvm2 a--  14.55t    0
  /dev/sdb1  datavg   lvm2 a--  14.55t    0
  /dev/sda1  home2    lvm2 a--  <7.28t    0
  /dev/sdf1  vg.crypt lvm2 a--  16.37t    0
  /dev/sdd1  vg.crypt lvm2 a--  14.55t    0
  /dev/sdg1  vg.crypt lvm2 a--  16.37t    0
root@Gentoo-1 / #



That looks better in a Konsole.  Oooo.  I'm over 100TBs now.  O_O 

Dale

:-)  :-)