From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9B31158083 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 21:11:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E61E1E2A4E; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 21:11:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (mail.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB2D4E2A34 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 21:11:18 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <65e5de50-e053-46ff-be61-52f472d95025@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 17:11:14 -0400 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of! To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: Eli Schwartz Autocrypt: addr=eschwartz@gentoo.org; keydata= xjMEZmeRNBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAYNZ7pUDWhx1i2f3p6L2ZLu4FcY18UoeGC04Gq/khqwfN I0VsaSBTY2h3YXJ0eiA8ZXNjaHdhcnR6QGdlbnRvby5vcmc+wpYEExYKAD4WIQTvUdMIsc4j CIi+DYTqQj6ToWND8QUCZoRL+gIbAwUJBKKGAAULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIeBQIXgAAK CRDqQj6ToWND8aB5AP9r4kB691nNtNwKkdRiOdl7/k6WYzokvHvDamXxRJ0I+gEAjZqR5V8y mfR3fy2Z+r2Joeqdt3CIv5IwPs64spBvigLOOARmZ5E0EgorBgEEAZdVAQUBAQdATT46Z06b 1X9xjXFCYFxmq/Tj3tSEKZInDWTpoHQp4l8DAQgHwn4EGBYKACYWIQTvUdMIsc4jCIi+DYTq Qj6ToWND8QUCZmeRNAIbDAUJBKKGAAAKCRDqQj6ToWND8a2RAP40KPfbfoiZAJW5boFmFJ3G TUBDJRh9CWHyaPqq2PN+0wD/R07oLzfnJUN209mzi9TuTuHjeZybysyqXSw4MAxkMAY= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------eFINbA2Qc0npztkhoQYbAOxe" X-Archives-Salt: 3258fef8-5478-4f0c-a15a-0d962e5b6ad6 X-Archives-Hash: 445acd7f1b89d76f347e202fe9e81a6a This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------eFINbA2Qc0npztkhoQYbAOxe Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BdSeq3MdQF9V0KPP1rPG0RKv"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eli Schwartz To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <65e5de50-e053-46ff-be61-52f472d95025@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of! References: In-Reply-To: --------------BdSeq3MdQF9V0KPP1rPG0RKv Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9/23/24 4:14 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Hello, Gentoo. >=20 > I got a nasty shock earlier on this evening when I was updating my > (still newish) system. Around (perhaps) 70 packages to be updated or > reloaded, several of them big packages. What's going on? >=20 > There were lots of qt and kde packages being sucked in. But what stood= > out prominently was the wayland USE flag, which appeared to have been > enabled in most of these packages. >=20 > What on Earth is going on? I never asked for wayland, and I haven't > received any news items about it in the last few weeks. I know little > about this X substitute, but one thing's vitually certain; that > installing it as emerge intended would lead to a lot of breakage. Intriguing that you feel it is "vitally certain" it will lead to breakage. Where do you derive that conclusion from? To be sure, installing it as emerge intended would lead to a lot of recompiling and packages that you aren't using. That's the description of bloat, not the description of breakage. To be perfectly clear: both X and Wayland support can be and frequently are compiled into the same program and/or the same toolkit. It kind of needs to, because binary distros such as Arch, Debian, Fedora etc only provide one build, and that has to work for people using X, and it has to work for people using Wayland. The resulting packages pull in support libraries that implement both technologies. This is (usually, absent dlopen tricks) a fundamental requirement of "ld.so", the runtime loader: if you compile support for it, you have to have it installed. But no code is *run*, because it is all conditional on a check that looks like such: #if defined(COMPILED_WITH_WAYLAND_SUPPORT) if get_current_display_server_type() =3D=3D 'wayland': run_wayland_specific_code() #elif defined(COMPILED_WITH_X_SUPPORT) if get_current_display_server_type() =3D=3D 'xorg': run_xorg_specific_code() #endif Please note that no matter what display server you run, get_current_display_server_type() is the same function either way, so you're not actually running any "wayland code" even if you check to see whether you are running wayland. But you do need to install the wayland libraries, since the body of the if statement runs "wayland code". Unless you compile the package with USE=3D"-wayland", which means that neither get_current_display_server_type() nor run_wayland_specific_code() are compiled at all. In short, installing wayland will NOT break your X11 system and it is rank paranoia to assume so or claim so. But it will make you compile a bunch of stuff you don't want or need. Surely, that is reason enough for you to make an informed choice about disabling USE flags that you do not need, rather than worrying about how Gentoo is broken all of a sudden? Do you have that little faith in the Gentoo Developers, that you think we'd make a USE flag change that made everyone's systems suddenly break? :( > So I disabled the wayland USE flag in my make.conf, and the number of > packages to merge went down to 29. I merged them. >=20 > I'm hoping my machine is still stable. It would have been nice to have= > got a news item about this change. :-( Your machine was, is, and will continue to be stable. Please, relax. :) News items are a better fit for scenarios where users are required to take action. No one is required to take action here, though you may take action if you wish. There are lots of other things that don't require action, but you may choose to take action over. Any system update can update a package that you like, to a new upstream version that removes your favorite features. Does there need to be a news item every time a package is updated? I assure you you'd get quite sick and tired of the constant news items if that actually happened. P.S. Yes, I disabled the wayland USE as well. I'm not trying to push wayland on you, don't worry. --=20 Eli Schwartz --------------BdSeq3MdQF9V0KPP1rPG0RKv-- --------------eFINbA2Qc0npztkhoQYbAOxe Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wnsEABYIACMWIQTnFNnmK0TPZHnXm3qEp9ErcA0vVwUCZvHZcgUDAAAAAAAKCRCEp9ErcA0vV0o+ AP45fKsBcDouz28U+DAN1sv5NyaAkeWN3aRvqfI4sN6EvQD8Cu2Qe2rkCkqsW4D6mQq4crpOcDO1 BkG+csFjvKzbmwo= =/vzW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------eFINbA2Qc0npztkhoQYbAOxe--