From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8260A1581C1 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2024 22:12:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 719842BC114; Sun, 7 Jul 2024 22:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (prime256v1) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3B202BC0BB for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2024 22:12:38 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1720390352; x=1720995152; i=warp_7@gmx.de; bh=pYRwgWinXtF8qYp6o1zauohIJuPwyt3U61c9WGvmihs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:References: MIME-Version:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:cc: content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:message-id: mime-version:reply-to:subject:to; b=MdvKy/+awLfHkElvXnR/sqk6Ig9aKLi8+wOBrP9Q5H1GiO+je6TLWa9/D1Cqk+bY EmBWe8CkoD6jNKr4PwkEOEZnHbORx8EwdSozVxY4ZQw9cs1ylgIZItPPjaG1ZID2p L2d7dS14rt+BprR/OLepcjMFLy+cO5t45qN3ViHIHxVfY3NAEnCwbWn/MTJyoUacM aYARttBIEleLwQfYr08P6cFdoReSfMDqYds3GWxbDd2XCORENoslE2F3NfeDa31tP jZjKrLwI8ixhecr2Ah4rs4xp3Rw1D57T7L5MTTRiR5DcHf6mnb2A5fM89un8IqYA1 fDs31ukiN1dOWpmRGg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from kern ([89.245.63.195]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MZktZ-1svkAB03tP-00VFxe for ; Mon, 08 Jul 2024 00:12:32 +0200 Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2024 00:12:27 +0200 From: Frank Steinmetzger To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] New monitor, new problem. Everything LARGE O_O Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <34ea5003-9d26-f379-35b9-aa638942d2ad@gmail.com> <2816357.BEx9A2HvPv@rogueboard> <1973786.PYKUYFuaPT@rogueboard> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="2A9LqbfEtsbqGsit" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt 2.2.13; VIM - Vi IMproved 9.1 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:F+GHYkgQTyz8fNgAf7bip98PlbejK2MdzhAeW+c7cF1injJyq5X 89ue9ialTN0n45i6hotQAkkzPb+5lwua1XHsGLjIDTZw+vxj2l5tLeFQxKC1vcz9f9STrFp 23ifgB3xBJxWkuSqvpxuxx/5petMH32G1/ENJshv/haHU0E8Nggg2ty8gaUmhFJhMlB8I6x Fd2XFwEFXl503ZRLsN7Zg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:3880B4rO7js=;Bf2wtqCaG9loEcz0bn8z1O6NFGc 86oU3FCxq2dmTLSXjWU7EnSnXML+lJcKVPIXCd9jAiiiej7I4dRdSVxQ+GoSgBRGdzStj987s HBrmiDWHfd9oGZlwmv4u23G2NDMXp/a5HmqBmQpO87Pn1IId/c2SSz5ZCU2+W0cHvv3bvx92Q Uc6t1fPu7vZeRKdpwHl0TecUllhTvdgpzbTj5qu6nT9RAYOf2f4aBaiFbsdGsfZCPod848fzG yhrCHYxxQ/+rNvqe/6McCFYxMbILBR5e2dhdkEqjTbNNKRStPwt7t0UIpGvpz8DT7X+HKFSVN xq+cGyuO8hIIHtjFOmugDLPfIvk+O+bKwJYqqSgz3bUXAkHGkSrzoJVH6bcn27uEjh0sft9Ud eU3PhQRrfuGdeEByP4i3V7dQ2kxUZ+4MG8YpWd/UaU05X4UkwGltBy8sw7uZPdW5h+70xFc0o g6cVJFTWEYSSLVPdBNi30Mwyw9YSASiZT4WccNGHE1q1PydJt6IjUJJqCmd2qtjpwGBttQDqo 5yEpHEArNu3wjWueCKjnfe0UL0uo8e8ceGyPJ8CbvjBKOmAUyIXR66evjFTRs6bnkf4MydXz8 2+bLIwvCwkbfIUE1D7bGOmyr6Cb6bMeJs5K0iN05kWd3sbaECKurXCnj3v40azhQQPjOzRpyu Urhf7R7hHsp9OATiHlA1mCWMFh9xeYC6HY250fRsHhlwTiFy8V7ELwmwfpqEmZCRX+x5AxhSg AwQVyIOffygW3cLFRPxOv7PXAuLruXvIWZeUZVPRH2jqdDq6sbEpcJlzR+MTSJZ159MGUgWdn 0X2xRRG3XfVv+AEAorYjl8pU+jpTy9HqLshwBoGpLCkgI= X-Archives-Salt: 22d0d0ce-a298-4bd3-be94-6691d681f595 X-Archives-Hash: de28be4ca2f972f178c3cf4d13e77dba --2A9LqbfEtsbqGsit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 02:06:04PM -0700 schrieb Mark Knecht: > On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 1:09=E2=80=AFPM Frank Steinmetzger = wrote: > > > > Am Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 07:32:49PM -0500 schrieb Dale: > > > > > Well don=E2=80=99t mix up frame rate and scaling. 75 Hz vs. 60 is quite= subtle, > you > > might not even notice 90 Hz. But changing DPI from 80 to 70 will mean an > > increase in fonts by 14 %. >=20 > So I understand the 14% calculation, but help me understand the underlying > technology. Is the DPI how a font file, which I presume is some fixed siz= e, > like 25x25, gets scaled onto the screen? I'm not clear about the conversi= on > from the font to the number of dots used to draw the font on the screen. Yeah. So, big convoluted topic. ^^ First, there is the physical pixel raster of the screen, which determines= =20 the PPI value. But what may confuse people without knowing (I was very=20 confused in my early computing days when I was using Windows): font sizes= =20 and their units. People usually think in pixels, but font sizes are given i= n=20 point, especially on modern Linux desktops. Historically, Points come from= =20 lead typesetting, where 1 pt =3D 1/72 inch. And monitors of early publishin= g=20 machines (and I think at the time in general) all had 72 ppi, so if you hav= e=20 a font size of 12 pt =3D=3D 1/6 in =3D=3D 4,233 mm on your screen, it will = be=20 exactly the same size on the printed paper. No scaling necessary. I forgot some of the minutiae over time; AFAIR Windows 9x+ assumed a standa= rd=20 density of 96 ppi and font sizes were set up in pixels in the control panel= =2E=20 The monitor market was very homogeneous, there was not much diversity, so n= o=20 need for scaling factors. The default in Windows 2000 and XP was Tahoma at = 8=20 pixel. And it was the same on Pocket PCs (PDAs with 3=E2=80=B3 touch screen= s of=20 240=C3=97320). So if you took a screenshot on all of those screens, the fon= t was=20 identical to the pixel. No comes the clash between the logical and the physical world. Today we have - high-density screens like tablets and laptops: 4K at 14=E2=80=B3 equals 3= 15 ppi - the standard cheap office screen of 1900=C3=971200 at 24=E2=80=B3 equals = 94 ppi - my 8 years old Thinkpad with FullHD at 12.5=E2=80=B3 and 176 ppi A text of size 12 pixel will always be 12 pixels high, so it will appear=20 smaller to the eye when the pixels are small, and bigger when the pixels ar= e=20 big. OTOH, a text at 12 pt should be displayed physically (in millimeters or=20 inches on the screen) at the same size no matter how fine a screen resolves= =20 an image. So the computer needs to know how many pixels it needs to reach= =20 that size. That=E2=80=99s where the ppi come in: font size in pt Number of pixels =3D --------------- * Screens density in pixel/in 1/96 pt/in The first factor gives you the font=E2=80=99s physical dimension in inch, t= he second=20 factor converts that into pixel height. The units all cancel each other out= =20 with pixels remaining. That=E2=80=99s why you can enter the screen=E2=80=99s ppi into the settings= (or use it=20 automatically, if possible). So the font size you set will be the same to= =20 your eye no matter what monitor you plug in. The scaling factor business=20 hides that: 100 % means 96 ppi, 200 % means 192 ppi. This produces two =E2=80=9CUnfortunately=E2=80=9Ds: Unfortunately 1: people don=E2=80=99t know what the scaling means and how i= t works=20 physically. Unfortunately 2: UI developers stick to this scaling factor idea. Everythin= g=20 outside certain values (meaning integer multiples of 96) looks ugly. But=20 none of my screens have a ppi of n * 96. They are all inbetween (117, 176,= =20 216) and when I set the correct scaling, the Plasma UI becomes ugly as hell= =20 because the previously nice-looking pixel-perfect lines become blurred or= =20 their thickness varies depending on where on the screen they are drawn. > > I=E2=80=99m confused. I thought the new one has already arrived and is = the one > where everything was HUGE. %-) >=20 > Dale does this at times and I get confused also. He will (the way I read = the > messages) sometimes be talking about different machines or different > monitors. His 'main rig", his "new rig", etc. We could stick to hostnames. *ducksandruns* --=20 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe | Greetings | Salut | Qapla=E2=80=99 Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. It=E2=80=99s a pity that at the end of the money there=E2=80=99s so much mo= nth left. --2A9LqbfEtsbqGsit Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEVbE9o2D2lE5fhoVsizG+tUDUMMoFAmaLEssACgkQizG+tUDU MMrSXg/+O8O5f9o02SRgbhtu36UcXQY8Eu4wKnXtQ0d7iOgcyzdSL4shSuMLV6NE NMPztYTyLif+7q3jUlL1b2DowmU20qZzTexB7jZR6Gcv0mq85IySZGrlDQqsD14p 4cBudPd0jgc/UangXMl+Z/dulc1tkX9x21hiYmQh41dR69H2aX5l5S4/H9oh8q4T nKRI9DGcSoP+X+g6ikrmjiu0GfYSI6r8e+LSEk/rAPFpwjfugwSzUEnhBtakASnq /oS4qTm9HcFVmISuEjr+BlnSwzAPrQ1epDz7f+4WN6+cBwbTGQa+hmt9pKWpc5qs vI8irTV4v6n1JD5bF0fFyL4gHg2WwudNJKZCaP60+2jIsHTxJG09/US7viuikae6 7K5FY6EBKFz0okKVCMy4dgqU3ZJgALTPZpnOhwQ8ihKXttDXCnZsDQ4E/sexKhzL QZnURCwnMHJJz6pmF2yn7iHBCzRyoa4lZ2OR2oWlRxtRO2wL49ZBSYQe7lrizcqW 5FG7JZFRxK51/6RbdyhrWCsB7nLXBMMeYPqy05Y/biYjspWWFY9DBZlKYkRBDjC7 IE7LaM1dp3c8vVJvrXFGywtFCOYSd7P0Gy3/6zcLgVUZJgHjXTZnJd2wYXjJEWNI BIqgQVRvb/PdL1QVb6Nsc3EU4W+aoF1kNiRZ501M40S8eCVg/9U= =I9Us -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --2A9LqbfEtsbqGsit--