From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4889A159C9B for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:53:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 68235E2E0D; Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:53:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.muc.de (mail.muc.de [193.149.48.3]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE115E2E06 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:53:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 54670 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Aug 2024 15:53:20 +0200 Received: from muc.de (p4fe15a33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.90.51]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Aug 2024 15:53:20 +0200 Received: (qmail 14988 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Aug 2024 13:53:19 -0000 Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:53:19 +0000 To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lots of issues with wayland Message-ID: References: <224010fd-7999-4e67-860a-a2b62d792dab@gmail.com> <6dcedd86-4db4-4c04-adb8-d63fe93e2822@kotiaho.net> <86cymllppj.fsf@gentoo.org> <8f1b3b69-c08c-4024-b359-ddfa24760a29@youngman.org.uk> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8f1b3b69-c08c-4024-b359-ddfa24760a29@youngman.org.uk> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-Archives-Salt: b9b651ca-83fa-46cb-a595-edea2864138a X-Archives-Hash: a721e000f5303c0ba58bf03140b9de92 Hello, Wol. On Tue, Aug 06, 2024 at 23:08:42 +0100, Wol wrote: > On 06/08/2024 19:31, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > So, is it possible in Wayland to record a configuration of windows, > > their sizes and positions, then restore these on starting a program > > again? If not, that would appear to be a design bug in Wayland. What > > am I missing? > That - unlike X - is because windows cannot say where they are going to > go. They can *ask* where they want to go, which isn't the same thing. How does it differ in practice? Under what circumstances would a request to display a window at a particular place result in it being displayed somewhere else? > Iirc, X behaves like Windows, which means applications can *seize* > focus, which drives me up the wall on occasion at work. I'll have an > Excel macro running, which takes maybe 3 or 4 minutes. So I go into > let's say Slack. Excel triggers something (google drive?) which grabs > focus and disappears, so all of a sudden I *think* I'm gaily typing into > Slack. But focus has been stolen and I'm typing into a vacuum - > EXTREMELY frustrating, especially as I don't actually know what's going on. I don't understand what these issues with focus have to do with positioning a window. Though I can appreciate them causing problems. There would appear to be a clash between Wayland running within a GNU/Linux running as a Windows subsystem, and the Windows itself - presumably Windows allows a Windows application to steal focus from a Wayland application in this situation. > In Wayland, you can't steal focus. But as a side effect, it's Wayland > that controls the window, not the application. So Wayland is more > secure, but that comes with unavoidable side effects that you don't like... How does Wayland controling the Window lead to an application program's inability to position it? I can't see the connection. Just as a bit of context; I've not yet tried Wayland, and for most of my work (including Emacs) use a Linux console. > Cheers, > Wol -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).