From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 705DE159C9B for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 20:34:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A552F2BC063; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 20:34:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rauni.kotiaho.net (rauni.kotiaho.net [IPv6:2a03:4000:5a:d2a::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F1E32BC022 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 20:34:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPV6:2001:2042:fe05:9400:b815:2a61:8c62:165d] (unknown [IPv6:2001:2042:fe05:9400:b815:2a61:8c62:165d]) by rauni.kotiaho.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00B281556E5B for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2024 20:34:39 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kotiaho.net; s=2024; t=1722976480; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=lP3Hved/NY3Q3KjfXiHaU7vy7U5IXAaUYJz6jqqagWg=; b=V7tn10UgU0XpLMiYew9s6FJc/4yPTgNoCbKH2l3rANjByCVhck6lcIS6Nv2ZQ/Zg2y/pxA kjs/wfE8KLB97srcuEokeTtxqPzXsQFP7BD52ylHBFpDM3vqclYP51i2eUnDaV08aM1Z3X aL1BfWjcOyF1W5qqDcsOkVCvaa9zwBuwkcDSpih15DRcR8JDthgEfUXextg6+w2NyOohzY 6Tozujcf7r8omWMXEF2acSaRsY9RYmXD81UtYSnio3TLygEXAE2TxFQeMC/X0LDHBsAjES yMDrryTS3CHTgEp8nBkfjlz0ptHlXRhR2PJo5ky4Nngar4PSYpiiIaNqaJomcg== Authentication-Results: ORIGINATING; auth=pass smtp.auth=gentoo@kotiaho.net smtp.mailfrom=gentoo@kotiaho.net Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2024 22:34:39 +0200 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Lots of issues with wayland To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <224010fd-7999-4e67-860a-a2b62d792dab@gmail.com> <6dcedd86-4db4-4c04-adb8-d63fe93e2822@kotiaho.net> <86cymllppj.fsf@gentoo.org> From: "J. Aho" Content-Language: en-US-large In-Reply-To: <86cymllppj.fsf@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: ae03d1b7-5ddf-4e87-b93c-0cf52919bc00 X-Archives-Hash: c761081bffb5c7bcb6cdadce987a7d73 On 06/08/2024 15.56, Arsen Arsenović wrote: > "J. Aho" writes: > >> On 05/08/2024 18.30, Daniel Frey wrote: >>> Is it just me or is wayland nowhere near primetime? >> >> There are still issues with wayland, not sure how up to date this page is: >> https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d1f2277 > > it's either out of date or fearmongering. I'd presume the former if not > for the first emphasised paragraph of the post: "DO NOT USE A WAYLAND > SESSION It's quite possible as I didn't really read the beginning of the page, just saw some stuff mentioned that I had seen on other places. > - Wayland breaks screen recording applications - this is false, either > 1) screen recording works via portals, or 2) screen recording works > via xwaylandvideobridge I think there was some merit to that claim some years ago, I'm not into screen recording so not sure. > - Wayland complicates server-side window decorations - CSD seems logical > to me, at least in large part, so I'm not sure this actually matters. > however, I know that SSD support exists. I have to say I'm quite anti-CSD myself, much for the lack of having close on left side and minimize/maximize on the right side of the window but also the horror of everyone want to make their own look on the CSD which makes everything to look like microsoft-windows where even microsoft's own application uses different look. I don't see the CSD as a specific wayland issue, it has the same issue in X11 too. > - Wayland breaks window managers - I'm not sure what they mean here I guess that could be related to X11 window managers that do not support wayland, but it's like a qt3 application don't run on a system with only qt6 libraries. > there's a new graphics stack because the old one didn't work, and I'm > not sure where this kind of response to it comes from - it seems similar > to the systemd debacle. see also > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWQh_DmDLKQ (by a former X developer, > so, someone with qualifications) > > what these posts /also/ lack is enthusiastic contributors who'll > actually pick up the mantle of maintaining and improving X. Sure it's far easier to say what "you" think don't work than code. There was a X11 variant where they had stripped away loads of support for old stuff, just don't remember the name (most variants of X11 had been forgotten), and they had some improvements too, but if you don't get picked up by a major distribution, you will definitely have a lot harder to break thru to the masses. > I have been using wayland for probably four or so years now, and I've > only so far missed a standard for global shortcuts (note, a _standard > for it_, not a hack-job allowing clients to listen to keystrokes > globally and react to them, leading to weird conflicts and fragmented > configuration; something integrated into desktops, that's not a job of > individual clients to implement, so, really, I'm missing that in X also). Just make a patch and submit it ;) >> My SailfishOS based phone uses wayland and on that it's been working fine, on >> my desktop with a nVidia RTX I haven't managed to even login into a wayland >> session, > > hmm, on my 1050Ti PC I run kde plasma just fine. I don't know anyone > with an RTX card to ask them if it works for them, though - but it could > be some misconfiguration (you need some USE flags on the nvidia drivers > IIRC, and some compositors, like sway, require an extra flag). I have been using KDE since Havoc called me a troll for pointing out that you can't have configuration options that has the exact same name but does different things. I have rebuilt the whole system, I have tried with other distros, the same result, I do not get wayland to work on the nVidia, not sure how many different howto's I have tried to follow, but on the laptop not much of an issue at all but as I pointed out it's an intel GPU. And my old mobile it works fine too. -- //Aho