Re: [gentoo-user] What is recommended behavior for complete updating of an old system ?

[Bob Sanders]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:46:41 +0100
Jimmy Rosen <listjiro@×××××.com> wrote:


> Primary:
> What is a recommended way to update an old system to minimize the
> amount of broken ebuilds?
> Is emerge --emptytree world a good idea? Is it better than a clean
> install? Or is the documentation's way good enough even for a very old
> system:
>     emerge --update --deep --newuse world
>     emerge --depclean
>     revdep-rebuild

For an old machine that takes a long time to compile, or an embedded system -

	emerge sync once per week and let it run over the weekend doing updates.

	About once per year -
		- emerge sync 
		- ufed and check out the USE flags.  Some changes occur and they need a
			bit of cleaning.
		- emerge -eav system  (no need to d world.)
		- emerge -uDNav world
		- python-updater
		- perl-cleaner all
		- revdep-rebuild

> I have an unexplainable fobia against --depclean though.

	Then don't.  All you care about is the programs you currently use, those others
	just sit there taking some space.  If you're not obsessive about a little disk space, why
	wipe them off the disk?

> And updating
> everything at once seems a bit reckless, I mean with the age of the
> system it would update almost everything. The package list was a mile
> long, and you never know what will break.
>

That's why you should keep on a regular update schedule.  A lot of programs get
fixed, USE flags change, dependencies change, configuration options get updated.
 
> Secondary:
> How often should one update the system to minimize hassles with broken
> packages?

Me?  I do most of my working systems daily - takes about 10 minutes for all 4 systems.
Home systems - daily or weekly.  Laptop monthly.  Better to see a small problem show
up than wait for it to be buried in a lot of updates and then have to find out which of
10 or 20 packages caused the issue.

> Too often, and the hassle of constant upgrading can get tedious even
> if it works ok, and too late, and some odd dysfunctional version
> combinations start showing up that the packages were not really
> tested for, leading to broken ebuilds.
>

Have you run other distributions where you get the massive binary updates 3 times per year?
Have you had to fun of doing minor package updates in between  the massive updates and
then find that the massive update leaves your system completely borked because of conflicts
with the minor updates?  And I mean you don't see these until the system tries to reboot, and
then it sometimes won't do that.

>
>
> I did like this:
> I didn't want to run a clean install or an --emptytree thingie. I
> wanted to take it a few steps at a time, so that if something broke I
> might have an idea about what new packages it was that broke it.
>
> 1) take a backup of the system. I have some modifications
> in /etc/init.d scripts and some extra non-gentoo stuff for clustering
> installed that I didn't want to risk, and I was pretty sure something
> would bork and leave me clueless. lol
>
> 2) emerge sync. Nice, worked.
> emerge *only the most important stuff* (oh, I'm really chicken btw):
> portage, baselayout, etc.
> That brought in some dependencies, but it worked out all right after a
> while and a lot of figuring out the /etc/init.d and config file
> changes that has happened for the last 1.5 years. And some other
> changes as to where certain configs go, and how, and so on. But most
> was easily searchable in docs or forums.gentoo or on this list.
> Reboot here to see if it even booted any more... YEEAAAH!
>
> 3) emerge basic user packages like gcc, glibc, xorg (yes I was still
> on xfree) kernel, etc.
> note: I have to stay on 2.4 because I use openmosix for the
> clustering, and I don't yet trust 2.6om.
> For this I started using --update --deep since I did want an updated
> system, but not all at once.
> This still worked out all right, with just some minor headaches of
> broken ebuilds. And some config files again.
> hrmmpf kernel change means reboot. darned.
>
> 4) emerge --update --deep desktop stuff like KDE, openoffice,
> browsers, etc...
> This started generating Looooooooots of broken packages. I have spent
> many hours looking through the _VERY_NICE_ bugs.gentoo.org. I still
> get bitten by bugs that are filed fixed in mid 2003. lol

So here's something to chew on - you are running a cluster with a boat load
of desktop apps.  And desktop apps have tons of libs that are needed.  Plus
the desktop and their apps change a lot - there is a lot of churn in desktop apps.
They are going to break more often.  Waiting will just make the breakage worse
and cause all the compiles to occur at one time, instead of being spread out.

> Some more config file updates, and restarting all significant services
> to use the new software.
>
> 5) Now, muahaha, emerge --update --deep world. Aiaiai. Another batch
> of broken packages, but not the critical ones, since most everything
> necessary has already been updated.
> Some more config files. I _really_ like dispatch-config and cfg-update
> by now.
>
> 6) Well, I'm here now. The system works just fine. And yes, I recently
> remembered that I had forgotten to update the USE flags to cover the
> current situation (stooopid teflon memory). But I hope I can wait
> until the current few remaining problems are out of the way, and then
> I can perhaps (hope and pray) use the eminent and functional(?)
> --newuse (and I do so very much hope works with/as --deep).
>

You should use them together - emerge -uDNav world

> I still have some problems, mainly with skype, which works but have
> some odd dependency thingie with dbus that emerge doesn't like. And
> revdep-rebuild tries to bring in some stuff that are no longer in
> portage. Interesting, though, is that
>     equery depends '=pack-group/packagename-x.y.z'
> doesn't report anything depending on those old packages any more after
> all the updates. How can I figure out what wants them?
>

Try the packages with emerge -uDNav package package etc...

> revdep-rebuild? is it safe to use, and safe with --package-names
> (since just about every single package it's trying to bring in is no
> longer in the portage tree)
>

All it's doing is creating an - emerge, command.  If you run - revdep-rebuild -p,
then at the end of the pretend mode, do a - rm -rf /root/.revdep-rebuild.*,
you can take the emerge line and do as many or as few as you want.
 
> What somethingsomething-update programs should I run during the
> process?
> python-updater
> perl-clenaner
> java-config
> opengl-update
> modules-update
> --- what am I missing -- ?
>

Nothing really if you do the --newuse, as well.
 
> Is udev supported on 2.4.26+? would it be useful instead of devfs? and
> is there a *really* good guide for switching (that might warn me of
> the common problems I'm bound to run into)?
>
>

No.  Udev is 2.6 only.  And a good guide is -
	 http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/udev-guide.xml

>
> In retrospect it might have been faster to simply do a reinstall or
> --emptytree. Sorry for issuing such a blasphemous statement on this
> list.
>

No, you just need to do the system - emerge -e system
The rest will take care of itself through a emerge -uDNav world.

Have fun!

Bob 
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