Re: [gentoo-user] To all IPv6-slackers among the Gentoo community

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Wednesday, 27 November 2019 01:51:44 GMT Dale wrote:
>> Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2019 at 8:10 PM Dale <rdalek1967@×××××.com> wrote:
>>>> I went to Newegg.  Hey, I buy stuff there sometimes.  Anyway, I've
>>>> looked at several routers and none of them mention IPv6 that I can
>>>> find.  I even skimmed the reviews and can't find a mention of it.  Is
>>>> there some secret way to know when IPv6 is supported?  Is it called
>>>> something else maybe?
> It is called the OEM's website where technical specs are provided for each
> model.
>
> It is also called Wikipedia.  There may be a page where all models of a
> particular manufacturer are listed in some table, explaining their
> functionality.

I went to the OEMs website but they don't always give info in a way that
makes sense to me.  I learned more from the Openwrt site than I did the
OEMs.  OEMs are usually full of fluff and buzzwords. 

I used to go to wikipedia but after being misled several times, I no
longer use it if I can avoid it.  I'd be more likely to believe comments
in the review section of a product than wikipedia.


> There are also webpages with reviews - but careful with those.  Most are
> nothing more than a shill for Amazon or some such shop, rather than an honest
> technical appraisal.  Sometimes youtube may have an unwrapping video, or demo
> of configuring a particular router - if you are interested to know what they
> look like in more detail.
>
> There are specialist websites like:
>
> https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/
>
> as well as open source firmware projects like OpenWRT/DD-WRT etc., with useful
> blogs and forums to peruse, along with reports for suitable hardware.
>
> Online shops are the last place to visit, *after* you have concluded which
> router is best for you, to see if you can afford the price.  Their websites
> may have incorrect technical information, out of date specifications and
> irrelevant (annoying) marketing speak to attract consumers.  Many are just
> box-shifters and wouldn't be able to tell you what's in the box you ordered
> anyway: "errm ... whatever they're shipping from China these days".  o_O
>

I've found that asking here is best.  If it wasn't for my post here, I
would have stuck with Linksys because it is what I've used in the past. 
Thing is, a post here lead me to a better product, even tho it wasn't a
Linksys product.  It's one reason I post questions here quite often.  I
get more info from here than I could likely ever find elsewhere because
most people here post about their own experience not some theory.  You
should know, you post about yours quite often and it's generally a good
idea to give it some weight when deciding something. 


>>> IMO there are three reasonable approaches you can take towards getting
>>> a router you won't curse yourself for buying a year from now:
>>>
>>> 1.  DIY.  PC or other general-purpose computing hardware with multiple
>>> NICs.  There are SBCs that work well for this.  You can run pfsense or
>>> some other router-oriented distro/software/wrappers.  Or you can just
>>> roll your own with netfilter and such.  Max flexibility, but also max
>>> fuss.  Unless you use a SBC you'll also be paying a price in
>>> electricity.  Don't underestimate how much you pay for any x86-based
>>> system that runs 24x7 - especially anything old you have lying around.
>> I remember how my old rig pulled power.  It pulled like 400 watts or so
>> idle.  Of course, it was lacking in power so when compiling, there
>> wasn't a lot of difference really.  In the winter, I rarely needed a
>> heater.  Its constant heat output kept this bedroom comfy.  No real need
>> for a heater.  It's one reason I want to avoid this option.  Mostly, I
>> want something I'll get many years of service from and everything work
>> well, wired or wireless now that I have a cell phone and printer that
>> needs it.  My current router pulls like 10 watts or something.
>> Considering I run electric heat and such, it's a rounding error for me.
>> Heck, my main puter is too.  It pulls like 180 watts which includes
>> everything, modem, router, monitor and the rig itself.
>>
>> The positive part tho for option 1, if another port is needed, just add
>> a network card and it's done.  With DHCP and friends, it will likely
>> just work.  That's something you can't do with a store bought router.
>> Whatever it comes with, that's what you got.  I've never needed more
>> than the 4 most come with tho.  My puter uses one, printer another and
>> cell phone.  I guess I have one left still.
> Every additional network card (PCI or USB) will also incur additional cost and
> soon you could run out of MoBo slots.  It makes more sense to buy a dedicated
> switch instead, with as many ports as you think you will need to use in the
> future.  Old routers can also be used as dumb switches, after you disable
> their DNS/DHCP/PPP, etc.  The world is moving towards high speed wireless
> connectivity anyway, so more and more devices will not need a physical switch
> port or ethernet cables to gain access to the network.
>

That's true.  I'd likely start with a two port wired card and a wireless
something or other for my printer and cell phone.  Thing is, I seem to
recall there being cards that have many ports on them.  I'm not sure on
price but if for some reason I needed 12 or 15 ports, it is more doable
then it is with a 4 port router which can't be expanded.  I doubt I'd
even need that tho which is why I'm going for a regular router. 


>>> 2.  OpenWRT/DD-WRT/etc.  Again it is a bit fussy but generally way
>>> less so than going pure DIY unless you're running pfsense or some
>>> other appliance-oriented distro.  If you go this route then definitely
>>> check for recommendations on hardware that is known to work WELL.
>>> Some stuff technically works but can be very prone to having to play
>>> around with JTAG and such if you make the slightest mistake.  You'll
>>> probably spend an extra $20 on hardware you won't regret buying - do
>>> it.
> +1
>
> Trying to save a few pennies could result in being lumbered with suboptimal
> hardware.
>

That's what I'm trying to avoid.  Yea, it's looking like I'm about to
spend $50 and maybe even $80 for a router.  Thing is, spending $10 or
$20 more than I might normally spend could give me a device that gives
me many years more service and saves money in the long run.  If I can
use Openwrt, that may extend that service life even longer.  I think I
paid like $10 for my current router at a thrift store. 

>> That's what I'm wanting as a option.  I may just use the firmware that
>> comes with the thing for a good while.  Later on tho, if needed, I may
>> switch to Openwrt or some other option that may work better.  It's a
>> option I'd like to have if possible.
> This is generally a good option because OEMs hardly ever bother upgrading
> their initial firmware these days.  They're more interested to ship the next
> model, or the same model in a shinier box.  As a result loads of routers are
> running around the world with actively exploited vulnerabilities.  At least
> with OpenWRT and friends you have a live opensource project actively trying to
> keep on top of the latest SNAFU.
>

That's why I'm looking for one Openwrt supports, or someone else, since
Linksys doesn't even support the one I have now.  After a few years, I'd
like to have options even if the OEM doesn't support it anymore. 


>>> 3.  Something commercial that isn't terrible.  There are various
>>> options, but everybody always points to Ubiquiti and I'm mostly happy
>>> with them.  If you want something that is more gui-based I'd go with
>>> their Unifi line.  I'd avoid Amplifi as it is more consumer-oriented
>>> and you'll end up being frustrated with it.  EdgeOS is getting closer
>>> to something like OpenWRT - it runs linux and you can get a shell and
>>> mess around with the CLI.  However, while the EdgeOS routing options
>>> are great they aren't so good with WiFi and EdgeOS and Unifi don't
>>> interoperate all that well (not impossible, but they don't really talk
>>> to each other so you have to maintain two configs).  I also really
>>> dislike that the EdgeOS management software is only supplied as a
>>> docker image, which is a pain if you're not using docker (one of these
>>> days I'll have to get it working with my bridge interface as it always
>>> tries to create its own and ends up having no physical network
>>> access).  The Unifi controller software is packaged for a couple of
>>> distros which makes it much more flexible to deploy (and you can use
>>> it on docker if you wish).
>>>
>>> Personally I'm running EdgeOS on my router and Unifi on everything
>>> else.  If I could go back I might have gone with Unifi on the gateway
>>> but it does bug me that it is so much more expensive and does the same
>>> thing.  If I had it then end-to-end VLAN/etc would be much more
>>> practical, though I'd need a pile of managed switches to make it work
>>> well.
>>>
>>> I've run all three options at various points.  Unless your needs are
>>> special I think there is value in just going with #3.  It just runs
>>> itself for the most part, and if you want multiple access points or
>>> anything like that the network basically runs itself.  I just plug in
>>> new hardware and then on the controller software it shows up, and one
>>> click provisions it which configures it to fit in with all my global
>>> settings.
>> This is why I might buy one compatible with Openwrt but wait until the
>> wireless stuff gets sorted out.  Like I said above, I'd like it as a
>> option so finding one that Openwrt supports should increase my odds if
>> they get everything working nicely later on.  I still remember the old
>> USB days when it was new.  It was buggy and stuff didn't work right
>> every time.  After a while tho, they got most the kinks worked out.  I
>> think Openwrt and others will do the same.  It may take a bit but maybe
>> by the time I'm ready to try it, it will be awesomeness.
>>
>> I just want to avoid replacing my current router with a router that also
>> doesn't have IPv6 support and has limited options later on.  Even google
>> isn't helping me much on that.
> Look at my suggestions above on how to investigate the availability of IPv6 or
> other desired functionality of candidate routers.
>
> Something I hadn't mentioned, merely because I don't know if it will work with
> your old router, is to hack the hardware itself.  Replacing the flash disk and
> RAM with larger components may land you a more capable device for no/little
> extra cost.  Just use one of the RAM modules you have lying around in your
> spares bin and hope the chipset is capable of booting and utilising it.  Some
> SoCs are crippled by design, having a max RAM capacity they will initialise
> hardcoded in their boot code.  They may not see or use more RAM and may even
> refuse to boot with it.  Nevertheless, it could be an interesting project for
> a rainy day, on a router which is on its way out anyway:
>
> http://neophob.com/2006/01/wrt54g-ram-upgrade/
>


Given its age, I think I'm just going to get a newer model.  If routers
were much more expensive, I might would have too.  It may even be a
option to do that and keep it as a emergency spare. 

Given what I've learned and found a router that I can buy that gives me
a lot of options, I'm happy with what I've found.  I think that TP-Link
router will suite my needs out of the box but likely even after the OEM
has stopped supporting it since Openwrt is a option.  It seems that when
I ask for info on this list, I always end up with a better plan, usually
one I haven't thought of.  Remember the printer?  I was stuck on HP. I
ended up getting a Lexmark, on sale, that does a lot more than I
expected as well.  Other than having a device that prints, that went
sideways real fast.  ;-)  In a really good way tho. 

Thanks much.

Dale

:-)  :-)