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On Sep 18, 2014 2:37 AM, "Volker Armin Hemmann" <volkerarmin@××××××××××.com> |
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wrote: |
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> |
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> Am 17.09.2014 um 18:06 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés: |
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> > This is highly off-topic, and systemd-related, so if you don't want |
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> > your breakfast with a healthy amount of flames, skip it. |
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> > |
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> > iTWire posted an interview with Linus Torvalds[1], where the Big |
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> > Penguin himself gave a succinct and pretty fair opinion on systemd. |
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> > The gist of it can be resumed in two lines: |
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> > |
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> > "I don't personally mind systemd, and in fact my main desktop and |
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> > laptop both run it." |
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> > |
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> > I post it here because several times in the last discussions about |
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> > systemd, there was people asking what opinion Linus had about systemd. |
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> > I personally don't think Linus particular opinion matters at all in |
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> > this particular issue; in general people who likes systemd will |
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> > continue to like it, and people who despises it will continue to do |
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> > so, for any good, bad, real or imaginary reason. However, I *really* |
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> > like several things Linus says in the interview; some juicy bits: |
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> > |
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> > • "So I think many of the "original ideals" of UNIX are these days |
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> > more of a mindset issue than necessarily reflecting reality of the |
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> > situation." |
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> > |
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> > • "There's still value in understanding the traditional UNIX "do one |
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> > thing and do it well" model where many workflows can be done as a |
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> > pipeline of simple tools each adding their own value, but let's face |
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> > it, it's not how complex systems really work, and it's not how major |
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> > applications have been working or been designed for a long time. It's |
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> > a useful simplification, and it's still true at *some* level, but I |
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> > think it's also clear that it doesn't really describe most of |
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> > reality." |
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> > |
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> > • "...systemd is in no way the piece that breaks with old UNIX legacy." |
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> > |
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> > • " I'm still old-fashioned enough that I like my log-files in text, |
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> > not binary, so I think sometimes systemd hasn't necessarily had the |
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> > best of taste, but hey, details..[.]" |
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> > |
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> > • (About the "single-point-of-failure" "argument") "I think people are |
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> > digging for excuses. I mean, if that is a reason to not use a piece of |
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> > software, then you shouldn't use the kernel either." |
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> > |
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> > • "And there's a classic term for it in the BSD camps: "bikeshed |
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> > painting", which is very much about how random people can feel like |
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> > they have the ability to discuss superficial issues, because everybody |
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> > feels that they can give an opinion on the color choice. So issues |
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> > that are superficial get a lot more noise. Then when it comes to |
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> > actual hard and deep technical decisions, people (sometimes) realise |
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> > that they just don't know enough, and they won't give that the same |
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> > kind of mouth-time." |
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> > |
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> > It's an interesting read; I highly recommend it. |
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> > |
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> > [1] |
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http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/65402-torvalds-says-he-has-no-strong-opinions-on-systemd |
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> |
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> Now you use this to advertise for systemd? |
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> |
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> Systemd fanbois are becoming more and more desperate. |
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> |
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|
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Oh give it a rest volker. its been obvious for years on this list that when |
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it really came down to it, many systemd "critics" (and i airquote that |
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because the amount of critical thinking is imaginary) were almost entirely |
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devoid of technical arguments when or even background knowledge, to the |
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point of embarassing themselves on the amount of "unix" knowledge they |
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purport to know. |
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|
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theres been a terrible history of being blatantly ignorant about what a |
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software does and yet running the mouth about why its wrong, as if you had |
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a better idea on how to coordinate hundreds of disparate develeoper |
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projects on how to run their own ships. blatantly refusing to give a crap |
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what an "init thingy" is, or showing a hilarious understanding of what fhs |
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is supposed to do or solve, to downright manufacturing what the /usr split |
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was supposed to be about, or denying that boot up race conditions were a |
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thing... the list goes on and it only betrays the haters' biases. |
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|
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fact of the matter is running to Linus' latest flame on udev or systemd or |
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fhs etc has been a standard go-to for haters t bring up for years past... |
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and now that Linus is like "well its okay blablabla" now the systemd peeps |
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are desperate? |
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|
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no, you are. go read yourself some fucking man pages, maybe youll learn a |
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little unix. |