Gentoo Archives: gentoo-user

From: "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@×××××.com>
To: gentoo-user@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] systemd as a Profile - practical or not?
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 16:52:11
In Reply to: [gentoo-user] systemd as a Profile - practical or not? by Tanstaafl
1 On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@×××××××××××.org> wrote:
2 > Hi all,
3 >
4 > Ok, before I go and open up a bug requesting this...
5 >
6 > I know there have to be a lot of people on this list who can answer this
7 > question...
8 >
9 > Is making the use of systemd or not based on a selected Profile, as opposed
10 > to manually trying to do it via USE flags etc, a practical request, or not?
11 >
12 > Meaning:
13 >
14 > 1. is it doable,
16 Of course it is.
18 > 2. how hard (on a scale of 1/easy to 10/hard to impossible) would it
19 > be to do this, and
21 Well, doing it I think it's easy.
23 > 3. regardless of the difficulty in achieving it, how hard would it be
24 > (on a scale of 1 (easy) to 10 (hard to impossible)) to maintain in
25 > the long run?
27 That's the pickle, isn't? Forget about how "hard" it is.
29 The problem, as I see it, is that this systemd profile is being pushed
30 by the people that *don't* want to use systemd, because they want it
31 restricted to a separated profile so their machines are not "tainted"
32 by systemd.
34 If it was the other way around (systemd users wanting a systemd
35 profile), there would be no problem, since they would happily do the
36 job. But as it is it makes no sense; if you want to maintain a systemd
37 profile, you need to *use* systemd to do the testing and supporting.
38 Are the people that don't want to use systemd, will use systemd to
39 test and support a profile so they don't need to use systemd? Really?
41 (And never mind that more and more packages in the stack will want to
42 use systemd's features, and some of them probably will not work, or
43 work with limited functionality, without said features. And a profile
44 is not going to change that.)
46 That being said, the GNOME team introduced a gnome/systemd profile
47 (and later the KDE team did the same). I've never saw the point in
48 doing that, but that's what they decided and is fine.
50 If the Gentoo developers that use and prefer systemd decide to create
51 a systemd profile, then it will (easily, I think) happen.
53 But it's the systemd users the ones you should convince to do it; not
54 anyone *not* using it or avoiding it.
56 > I'm hoping that even if the answer to #2 above is 7+, if the answer to #3 is
57 > 'relatively easy' or better, then maybe it still stands a chance of getting
58 > done.
60 The possibility exists, sure. You can talk to Michał and the other
61 members of the systemd project in Gentoo. If you convince them that it
62 is a good idea (and good for systemd, obviously), they will do it.
64 But anyone that wants to help this happen will need to use systemd to
65 support a systemd profile. That's simple logic.
67 > And incidentally, Canek, if I was a programmer, I'd be happy to volunteer to
68 > take it on, but alas I'm just a lowly user...
70 I would, but I don't think is worth it. It's not an unreasonable idea,
71 but I think it will make thinks muddy when someone chooses the "not
72 systemd" profile, and they will discover that anyhow they need systemd
73 to run a lot of things.
75 And, I repeat, usually when someone pushes for an X profile, it's
76 because they want to use X. In this case you are asking for an X
77 profile so you don't need to even see X; it makes no sense, since the
78 X profiles needs the people maintaining it to use X.
80 Regards.
81 --
82 Canek Peláez Valdés
83 Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
84 Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México