Re: [gentoo-user] akonadi ... don't you just love it?

[J. Roeleveld]

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 09:20:59 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 12/08/2014 21:00, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On 12 August 2014 20:21:03 CEST, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volkerarmin@××××××××××.com> wrote:
> >> Am 12.08.2014 um 16:10 schrieb J. Roeleveld:
> >>> On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 03:38:15 PM Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >>>> On 12/08/2014 15:28, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>>>> On 12 August 2014 14:06:07 CEST, Alan McKinnon
> >>
> >> <alan.mckinnon@×××××.com>
> >>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 12/08/2014 11:10, Mick wrote:
> >>>>>>> I recall the devs explicitly stating early enough in the KDE4
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> development that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> sqlite is not man enough for the job and advising everyone to
> >>
> >> move
> >>
> >>>>>> over to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> mysql.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Someone was looking at postgresql as an alternative to mysql, but
> >>
> >> I'm
> >>
> >>>>>> not sure
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> that this would bring any benefit.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> pg is a fine database, but for this use will always be a 2nd class
> >>>>>> citizen. Most users will already have mysql installed, or will be
> >>>>>> willing to install it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The number of folks with pg and without mysql will probably be
> >>
> >> small
> >>
> >>>>> Not necessarily.
> >>>>> People who care about databases actually supporting SQL properly
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>> performing properly will prefer PostgreSQL.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't like to be forced to run a MySQL instance as well. It's
> >>
> >> often the
> >>
> >>>>> laziness of developers that causes the difficulty of supporting a
> >>>>> different database when they started with MySQL. If you start with
> >>
> >> a
> >>
> >>>>> different one, like PostgrSQL, supporting different database
> >>
> >> engines is
> >>
> >>>>> very simple.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think you read what I said.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry, didn't read the below in what you put.
> >>>
> >>>> I didn't say postgresql shouldn't be supported, I said it would
> >>
> >> always
> >>
> >>>> end up being a second class citizen as the number of people who'd be
> >>>> happy with mysql will vastly outnumber the number of people who
> >>
> >> highly
> >>
> >>>> desire postgresql. So, logically, a postgresql driver in this case
> >>
> >> will
> >>
> >>>> probably just bitrot away. Whihc nicely explains the likely reason
> >>
> >> why
> >>
> >>>> that driver is not there.
> >>>
> >>> It wouldn't bitrot away as there would be people willing to keep it
> >>
> >> working,
> >>
> >>> provided it wouldn't require a MySQL -> SQL translator to be kept
> >>
> >> up-to-date.
> >>
> >>>> People like yourself who care about databases are very much in the
> >>>> minority of users, even on Linux. Most users across the boards just
> >>>> don't give a shit. Them's the breaks.
> >>>
> >>> Users never care about what they install. I just wish the majority of
> >>>
> >>> developers would actually be willing to follow some simple guidelines
> >>
> >> to make
> >>
> >>> it actually possible to others to write and maintain the drivers to
> >>
> >> connect to
> >>
> >>> different databases.
> >>>
> >>> Several attempts have been made by people to add support for
> >>
> >> different
> >>
> >>> databases to various projects. I've tried to do it myself on
> >>
> >> occasion, but
> >>
> >>> even when patches are accepted by upstream, they get broken by
> >>
> >> upstream at a
> >>
> >>> future release again because of the bad design that is often employed
> >>
> >> by lazy
> >>
> >>> developers.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Joost
> >>
> >> wasn't qtsql once supposed to that?
> >
> > If a framework like qtsql is used, swapping the database is easy.
> >
> > Most developers seem to prefer to reinvent the wheel and often come up
> > with something that vaguely resembles a circle and is held together with
> > a mixture of glue and duck tape.
> I blame php and others of it's ilk.

My point exactly.

> The good thing about php is that everyone and their dog can knock out
> running code.
> The bad thing about php is that they do.

Not PHP's fault, lazy developers' fault.

> Substitute mysql and bash if you will and tweak the content to suit - it
> all works out the same.
>
> Sensible languages (like, oh I dunno - python maybe?) have this trick
> about them - you have to work hard to write awful code. You also have to
> work hard to write awesome code, but if you just follow the book you
> usually end up with acceptable code.

I agree, to a fashion. I've seen some really bad examples of Python code 
though.

> I will refrain from commenting on perl.

I'm surprised noone came up with a Desktop Environment (like KDE and Gnome) 
written as a perl one-liner yet. ;)

--
Joost