Gentoo Archives: gentoo-user

From: "b.n." <brullonulla@×××××.com>
To: gentoo-user@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:45:43
Message-Id: 4789FECF.3020503@gmail.com
In Reply to: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead? by James
1 James ha scritto:
2 > OK, fine, then why doesn't of the persons that says it so easy, just take
3 > a GRMl (or whatever) cd and add the minimal (non gui) stuff to the same
4 > cd and make a simple to use 'install cd' for gentoo that is unofficial?
5
6 Because you don't have to add *anything* to such cd.
7 -What do you need to install Gentoo? A working Linux live cd with a
8 terminal and chroot.
9 -Are a terminal and chroot available on 99.9% of Linux live cds in the
10 world? Yes.
11
12 Since I installed Gentoo actually *only* from non-Gentoo cds in my life
13 (Knoppix or Kubuntu), I can *guarantee* nothing Gentoo-specific is
14 needed on such cds.
15
16 Sure, a list pointing to good, known live cds could be fine.
17
18 > Wouldn't it be easy for all of those whose answer this installation
19 > question over and over and over, to make a basic install cd on top of GRMl
20 > once and be done with it?
21
22 But IT'S ALREADY A BASIC INSTALL CD by itself! :)
23
24 > Well, I differ with this statement 100%. What, IMHO, needs to happened is the
25 > whole install process be changed to a minimal working kernel and basic tools.
26 > Then you fork the install in the direction as to what the system is to be
27 > used for: embedded-gentoo, firewall, bridge, managed switch, server
28 > (mail, web, dns, terminal etc etc) and last the complicated nightmare of
29 > a workstation (kde vs gnome vs etc etc).
30 >
31 > Of of the best features of Gentoo, is how easy maintaining and managing a
32 > server is. 99.999% of the issues with updates to gentoo, are related to
33 > the wide variety of packages available for workstations......?
34 > This approach could be used to build a basic installation with support for a
35 > wide variety of hardware, within a particular architecture. Then
36 > as the amount of installation packages are increase, logically break the
37 > installation across multiple (media) CDs. For example something like this
38 >
39 > Basic system complete packaging workstation
40 > kernel, baselayout... <needs to be discussed> X, kde, gnome,
41
42 This is something I disagree completely. Isn't the goal of Gentoo to
43 give you as much fine-grained as possible control on your system? If we
44 begin to create "generic" workstation,server etc. installs, we have to
45 do A LOT of assumptions on what is a workstation, server etc. for
46 people. What packages and what not. And you are sure that on a community
47 as idiosyncratic and addicted to fine-tuning like the Gentoo one, you
48 won't make very much people happy with your assumptions. How many of us,
49 for example, don't bother with KDE or Gnome completely and build a
50 Fluxbox or XFCE based workstation (Not me, but I know of many)?
51
52 To me the install must start from a minimal set of packages, just to
53 have a working system able to communicate with the world. From there,
54 it's the user that chooses. Heck, choosing packages and USE flags is the
55 fun part of a new Gentoo install. It's when that install becomes *your*
56 install.
57
58 > However, if installing gentoo, when asked, gives
59 > dozens of different answers, depending on a variety of asymmetrical,
60 > emotionally charged opinions, then the distro will continue to
61 > languish, and be a reclusive club for experts, or those
62 > with very think skin (to which I belong <you pick>)....
63
64 Trust me, I'm not an expert nor someone with a thick skin. There's a lot
65 I don't like of Gentoo, paradoxically one of these things is the time I
66 have to dedicate to system administration (I know there's nothing I can
67 do about that, it's just sometimes I'd like to build a sysadmin clone of
68 myself that does maintaineance when I'm sleeping :) ). I'm not an IT
69 guy, I'm a biologist that uses his Gentoo machines as desktops and
70 workstation. And when I started, I was the classical newbie that used
71 Mandrake for a year. I also still use Kubuntu in my laboratory, because
72 there I need something that can be installed fast, works out of the box
73 and that I don't have to mess around later at all.
74
75 Simply, Gentoo gives you control and the tools for making this control
76 logical, if not easy. And has a documentation and community of the best
77 quality, that's one of the many things that keeps me stick to Gentoo.
78 Ubuntus are good,slick systems,I sincerely like them: but their
79 documentation is worse and their community is full of people that are
80 relatively clueless with respect to the Gentoo community. So much that
81 often if I have troubles with Kubuntu, the docs I end to read are Gentoo
82 docs.
83
84 "Installing gentoo, when asked", you know, has just one answer: The
85 Handbook. No dozens of different answers, no asymmetrical and
86 emotionally charged opinions. It's simple as that: Fire a suitable Linux
87 live cd and read the handbook.
88
89 You can't get much more strict than that.
90
91 > The greater Gentoo community should decide what is best for gentoo and
92 > the installation semantic is the most important piece of
93 > advertisment/marketing that the Gentoo organization will ever
94 > devise, IMHO.
95
96 Having such a well done, step by step and detailed installation handbook
97 is one of the best marketing tools of Gentoo, from my experience and
98 that of my friends. Is not that enough as installation semantic?
99
100 m.
101 --
102 gentoo-user@l.g.o mailing list

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead? Neil Bothwick <neil@××××××××××.uk>