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James ha scritto: |
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> OK, fine, then why doesn't of the persons that says it so easy, just take |
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> a GRMl (or whatever) cd and add the minimal (non gui) stuff to the same |
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> cd and make a simple to use 'install cd' for gentoo that is unofficial? |
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|
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Because you don't have to add *anything* to such cd. |
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-What do you need to install Gentoo? A working Linux live cd with a |
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terminal and chroot. |
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-Are a terminal and chroot available on 99.9% of Linux live cds in the |
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world? Yes. |
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|
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Since I installed Gentoo actually *only* from non-Gentoo cds in my life |
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(Knoppix or Kubuntu), I can *guarantee* nothing Gentoo-specific is |
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needed on such cds. |
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|
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Sure, a list pointing to good, known live cds could be fine. |
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|
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> Wouldn't it be easy for all of those whose answer this installation |
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> question over and over and over, to make a basic install cd on top of GRMl |
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> once and be done with it? |
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|
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But IT'S ALREADY A BASIC INSTALL CD by itself! :) |
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|
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> Well, I differ with this statement 100%. What, IMHO, needs to happened is the |
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> whole install process be changed to a minimal working kernel and basic tools. |
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> Then you fork the install in the direction as to what the system is to be |
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> used for: embedded-gentoo, firewall, bridge, managed switch, server |
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> (mail, web, dns, terminal etc etc) and last the complicated nightmare of |
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> a workstation (kde vs gnome vs etc etc). |
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> |
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> Of of the best features of Gentoo, is how easy maintaining and managing a |
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> server is. 99.999% of the issues with updates to gentoo, are related to |
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> the wide variety of packages available for workstations......? |
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> This approach could be used to build a basic installation with support for a |
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> wide variety of hardware, within a particular architecture. Then |
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> as the amount of installation packages are increase, logically break the |
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> installation across multiple (media) CDs. For example something like this |
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> |
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> Basic system complete packaging workstation |
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> kernel, baselayout... <needs to be discussed> X, kde, gnome, |
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|
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This is something I disagree completely. Isn't the goal of Gentoo to |
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give you as much fine-grained as possible control on your system? If we |
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begin to create "generic" workstation,server etc. installs, we have to |
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do A LOT of assumptions on what is a workstation, server etc. for |
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people. What packages and what not. And you are sure that on a community |
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as idiosyncratic and addicted to fine-tuning like the Gentoo one, you |
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won't make very much people happy with your assumptions. How many of us, |
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for example, don't bother with KDE or Gnome completely and build a |
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Fluxbox or XFCE based workstation (Not me, but I know of many)? |
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|
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To me the install must start from a minimal set of packages, just to |
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have a working system able to communicate with the world. From there, |
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it's the user that chooses. Heck, choosing packages and USE flags is the |
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fun part of a new Gentoo install. It's when that install becomes *your* |
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install. |
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|
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> However, if installing gentoo, when asked, gives |
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> dozens of different answers, depending on a variety of asymmetrical, |
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> emotionally charged opinions, then the distro will continue to |
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> languish, and be a reclusive club for experts, or those |
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> with very think skin (to which I belong <you pick>).... |
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|
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Trust me, I'm not an expert nor someone with a thick skin. There's a lot |
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I don't like of Gentoo, paradoxically one of these things is the time I |
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have to dedicate to system administration (I know there's nothing I can |
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do about that, it's just sometimes I'd like to build a sysadmin clone of |
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myself that does maintaineance when I'm sleeping :) ). I'm not an IT |
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guy, I'm a biologist that uses his Gentoo machines as desktops and |
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workstation. And when I started, I was the classical newbie that used |
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Mandrake for a year. I also still use Kubuntu in my laboratory, because |
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there I need something that can be installed fast, works out of the box |
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and that I don't have to mess around later at all. |
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|
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Simply, Gentoo gives you control and the tools for making this control |
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logical, if not easy. And has a documentation and community of the best |
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quality, that's one of the many things that keeps me stick to Gentoo. |
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Ubuntus are good,slick systems,I sincerely like them: but their |
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documentation is worse and their community is full of people that are |
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relatively clueless with respect to the Gentoo community. So much that |
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often if I have troubles with Kubuntu, the docs I end to read are Gentoo |
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docs. |
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|
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"Installing gentoo, when asked", you know, has just one answer: The |
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Handbook. No dozens of different answers, no asymmetrical and |
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emotionally charged opinions. It's simple as that: Fire a suitable Linux |
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live cd and read the handbook. |
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|
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You can't get much more strict than that. |
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|
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> The greater Gentoo community should decide what is best for gentoo and |
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> the installation semantic is the most important piece of |
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> advertisment/marketing that the Gentoo organization will ever |
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> devise, IMHO. |
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|
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Having such a well done, step by step and detailed installation handbook |
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is one of the best marketing tools of Gentoo, from my experience and |
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that of my friends. Is not that enough as installation semantic? |
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|
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m. |
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-- |
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