Gentoo Archives: gentoo-user

From: wireless@×××××××××××.com
To: gentoo-user@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:33:33
1 On 11/21/14 07:00, Rich Freeman wrote:
2 > On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@×××××.com> wrote:
3 >> It's actually a great thing for a lot of use cases. But it doesn't
4 >> seem that Gentoo will change defaults soon, although systemd works
5 >> great with it.
6 >>
7 >
8 > My (personal) sense is that in the medium-term we may end up moving to
9 > not having any default at all, just as with bootloaders, kernels,
10 > syslog, crontab, mail, etc. That is pretty-much the Gentoo way
11 > everywhere else when there are options.
12 >
13 > As you already pointed out, as long as somebody cares to maintain
14 > openrc and write init scripts for it, there will be support for it.
15 > Many init scripts and systemd units are contributed by outside users
16 > already, and policy is that maintainers cannot block them from being
17 > added to packages (though they do not have to write/maintain them
18 > personally).
19 >
20 > Gentoo doesn't really tend to exclude anything, and inclusion is a
21 > matter of whether somebody wants to put in the work.
23 > Rich
25 Very wall expressed and neutral. This is an "800 lb gorilla" that nobody
26 seems to be talking about; that is embedded linux. Embedded linux now
27 accounts for at least 20 times the number of deployments of linux than
28 workstations and servers combined; some argue it is far more, others a
29 bit less. Regardless, embedded linux is a force that is driving the
30 semiconductor markets. There's not much margin on 32bit or less. etc etc.
32 The main point of embedded linux is take what Rich has articulated above
33 and multiply it by a billion. There is no such thing as standard
34 embedded linux. If Systemd is successful, with very large embedded
35 systems (dozens to hundreds of cores) then it has a future. If it
36 fails in that space, it may survive, but not likely. It will old serve
37 to isolate those distros that go down that path, exclusively, *imho*.
39 Regardless, the smaller, cheaper embedded linux crowd is very unlikely
40 to ever embrace systemd. Why? Glad you asks. Thousands of reasons, but,
41 here are a few: It is very common in embedded (anything) to run
42 multiple and often different rtos (real time operating system) on
43 different embedded systems products, often to circumvent licenses,
44 royalties, duplication, security and a plethora of other reasons.
45 Furthermore, many embedded systems run simultaneous codes on a single
46 core and systemd does not fit into that scheme of things, at all.
49 So, even if gentoo becomes stupid and decides to abandon openrc. Many
50 folks will just move to embedded (gentoo) linux and play "follow the
51 leaders" with bootstrapping there cores.
53 Rest easy as the devs fight this one out. I hope systemd survives
54 and prospers. I can tell you one area of massive failure and that is
55 clustering/cloud computing. Sure the "big dogs" with big buck are
56 claiming to use systemd, but they only roll out binary offerings. When
57 others try to use one of the commercial brands of linux and build a
58 cluster/cloud from the source-codes up, there are all sorts of problems.
60 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Very strange, batman. Very strange.
63 What is going on, is wildly variant. YMMV. But, should I be a sporting
64 man, my money is on the embedded folks deciding if something other than
65 systemd survives. Why do I bet on embedded folks? Easy. I personally
66 know of dozens of folks that code in machine, assembler all the way
67 through any language they choose. They routinely build entire systems,
68 custom on a wide bit of processors. Only a few of those folks are
69 necessary to keep alternatives to systemd alive, prosperous and clearly
70 documented. There are most likely tens of thousands of the folks around
71 the world. Do the math. Each time one of these experts build an embedded
72 (linux) system, it is usually optimized and so wonderful, that companies
73 clone them in counts of thousands to millions of deployed
74 linux systems. The fact that the majority rare require human tinkering,
75 is both a testament to how well they run and the wisdon of these
76 brilliant developers to keep the rank and file humanoids using winblows
77 and OXlooser operating systems.
79 A forking of the linux kernel would be the best thing to happen to
80 opensource, in a very, very long time. The kernel development has become
81 a "good ole boys club" imho.
83 Embedded linux runs everywhere; so rest easy!
86 peace,
87 James


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now Paige Thompson <erratic@××××××××××.sx>