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Neil Bothwick <neil@××××××××××.uk> writes: |
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|
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> On Tue, 29 Sep 2015 20:45:10 +0200, lee wrote: |
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> |
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>> Neil Bothwick <neil@××××××××××.uk> writes: |
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>> |
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>> > Patches are always more welcome than suggestions. "Fix it!" is never |
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>> > as welcome as "here's how". I think it was Canek who said "code |
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>> > talks". |
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>> |
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>> Do you have an example for such a case? |
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> |
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> Just look at b.g.o. Many bug reports include a patch submitted by a user |
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> that makes its way into the tree. |
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|
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What is b.g.o.? |
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|
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>> My experience has disproved |
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>> this claim, and I've even seen people fixing stuff multiple times after |
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>> I told them it's broken and provided a perfectly working version before |
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>> telling them, much better coded, which they could have used instead of |
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>> insisting on their crappy code and trying to fix it several times. |
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> |
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> You cannot judge one group of people on the behaviour of an unrelated |
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> group. |
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|
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But I can observe the behaviour of many similar groups of people, or of |
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people, and come to a conclusion about what behaviour can be |
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expected. That with very few exceptions, neither bug reports, nor fixes |
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are wanted, is an observation. I suppose I should have expected the |
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same behaviour here, and I made the mistake to think that I might |
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encounter different behaviour here. |
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|
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|
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> [...] |
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> #!/usr/lib/python-exec/python-exec2-c |
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> [...] |
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> |
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> In there you will find python2.7/emerge and python3.4/emerge (depending |
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> on which Python versions you have installed). |
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|
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ok |
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|
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>> I don't believe that they let everyone modify what they're working on, |
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>> so they are the only ones who /can/ fix it. Besides, show me where I |
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>> said something like "I want the devs to fix it". |
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> |
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> They don't. You submit the modifications in the bug report and they vet |
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> and apply the patches. |
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|
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Obviously, no patch is wanted. |
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|
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>> > Adding the word "just" to a demand does not make the task any |
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>> > simpler, nor does it increase your chances of getting what you want. |
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>> |
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>> Go ahead and show me where I have demanded something. |
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> |
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> Your insistence that it should be changed amounts to a demand. Your |
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> assertion that it can be done easily only demeans the efforts of the |
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> devs, implying that the fix is simple but they cannot be bothered. |
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|
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I'm not insisting at all. I'm merely saying that it could easily be |
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fixed. So people say it's not easy to fix but incredibly difficult, and |
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I say that fixing a "print" statement in some script can't be so |
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incredibly difficult to fix. Then people agree and give other reasons |
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--- which have nothing to do with changing a "print" statement --- for |
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why this is difficult to do. |
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|
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Some of what they say indicates that the devs cannot be bothered. How |
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you conclude that something which could be done easily and isn't demeans |
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anyones efforts escapes me. However, you would have to blame the people |
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saying that the devs cannot be bothered, not me. |
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|
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>> > On the contrary, it serves to illustrate that you do not grasp the |
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>> > complexity of the situation. |
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>> |
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>> Perhaps you can enlighten me how it is so difficult to change a message |
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>> from "slot conflict" to "slot conflict (can probably be ignored while |
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>> there are other problems)" and what the complexity is which makes it |
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>> impossible to do so. |
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> |
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> Changing the message is trivial, knowing when to change it is not. Unless |
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> you can provide a means to tell unimportant slot conflicts from important |
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> ones, Context is everything and the variety of Gentoo systems out there |
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> make it extremely difficult for portage to understand the context in |
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> human terms. |
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|
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You don't need to know when to change it. Once someone finds that they |
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still cannot update after fixing all other issues, they are able to |
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figure out that they may not ignore the message. Apparently it rarely |
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happens that they may not ignore the message. |
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|
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Some time, there might be a way to know when to change the message, and |
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even better messages could be used. Until then, a small change would go |
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a long way towards making the system more friendly for the users. So |
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why make things difficult for everyone --- for the devs by asking for an |
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ultimate fix and for the users by giving them misleading messages --- |
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rather than making things easier by using messages less misleading while |
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the devs can their time until they find the ultimate fix? |
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|
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I'd give them credit for taking that step. Can you explain how taking |
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such a step, or even suggesting to take it, could demean their efforts? |
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|
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|
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-- |
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Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons |
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might swallow us. Finally, this fear has become reasonable. |