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On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:11 AM, J. Roeleveld <joost@××××××××.org> wrote: |
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> On Friday, October 31, 2014 12:37:35 AM Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: |
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>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:30 AM, J. Roeleveld <joost@××××××××.org> wrote: |
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>> > On Thursday, October 30, 2014 06:31:25 AM Rich Freeman wrote: |
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>> >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 3:56 AM, J. Roeleveld <joost@××××××××.org> wrote: |
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>> >> > On Sunday, October 26, 2014 02:16:24 PM Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: |
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>> >> >> And with systemd, rebooting to a new kernel takes just a few seconds |
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>> >> >> ;) |
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>> >> > |
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>> >> > And here I was thinking that the pro-systemd crowd doesn't care about |
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>> >> > the |
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>> >> > boot-time of systemd? |
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>> >> > (See the " [OT} Linus Torvalds on systemd" thread around 18 - 21 |
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>> >> > september) |
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>> >> > |
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>> >> > Please make up your mind on this. |
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>> >> |
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>> >> This might come as a bit of a shock, but people use Gentoo for |
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>> >> different reasons, run different init systems, different udev |
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>> >> implementations, and so on. Well, believe it or not, systemd users |
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>> >> are exactly the same way and use different components of systemd for |
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>> >> different reasons. People also drive different types of cars, for |
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>> >> different reasons. |
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>> > |
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>> > I agree on this. But in the thread I mentioned, Mark David Dumlao was |
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>> > quite |
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>> > aggressive in his wording when the subject was brought up and he claimed |
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>> > systemd proponents don't care. Canek is the biggest proponent for systemd |
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>> > on this list. |
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>> |
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>> You should have answered then to Mark, not to me, given that I did not |
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>> said anything in that sub-thread. |
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> |
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> My apologies. |
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|
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No problem. |
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|
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>> But if it makes you happy, I will try to take notes in the next Big |
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>> SystemD Evil Conspiracy Meeting so in the future I do not contradict |
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>> any statement from anyone in the Pure Evil Directorate. |
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> |
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> I knew it! There really is one! :) |
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|
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Of course there is. We have a secret handshake and everything. |
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|
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> Thing is, I don't see any benefit, for myself, in systemd. |
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> If people want to use it, fine. |
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> But, if people are trying to force it upon everyone, then I will have a |
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> problem with it. |
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|
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No one is forcing it on anyone, but several developers from different |
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projects are happily using its (in their view) cool features. If |
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enough able and willing *developers* don't want to rely on systemd, |
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they need to provide the same functionality by other means, or ship |
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versions of the software with less features. But most developers (it |
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seems) are of the idea "cool, someone else did the work for us". |
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|
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> Systemd is, in my opinion, suffering from the same feature-creep as Grub2 does. |
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> Grub1 was faster, because it was smaller. But it isn't working propery anymore |
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> and Grub2 does its job. I just don't see the point in all the multimedia stuff |
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> that was put into a bootloader. |
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|
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I don't mind "feature creep", as long as the *features* are useful and |
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technically sound. Configuration that is an script generated by |
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another script? I don't think that's really technically sound. In all |
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my UEFI machines I'm using Gummiboot[1]; it's really small, really |
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simple, and works great. |
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|
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> I just had a look at the use-flags for systemd, similarly to myself wondering |
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> about multimedia support in grub2, I wonder why there is an HTTP-server |
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> embedded in journald. |
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|
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Well, first of all, as you noticed, it has an USE flag, so you can |
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disable it if you do not want it. |
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|
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Second of all, it's an (optional) feature that allows you to |
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synchronize data across a local network; no one in his right mind |
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would open it up to the whole Internet. From the commit that |
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introduced the (again, optional) feature [2]: |
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|
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""" |
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journal: add minimal journal gateway daemon based on GNU libmicrohttpd |
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|
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This minimal HTTP server can serve journal data via HTTP. Its primary |
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purpose is synchronization of journal data across the network. It serves |
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journal data in three formats: |
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|
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text/plain: the text format known from /var/log/messages |
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application/json: the journal entries formatted as JSON |
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application/vnd.fdo.journal: the binary export format of the journal |
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|
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The HTTP server also serves a small HTML5 app that makes use of the JSON |
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serialization to present the journal data to the user. |
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|
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Examples: |
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|
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This downloads the journal in text format: |
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|
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# systemctl start systemd-journal-gatewayd.service |
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# wget http://localhost:19531/entries |
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|
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Same for JSON: |
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# curl -H"Accept: application/json" http://localhost:19531/entries |
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|
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Access via web browser: |
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|
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$ firefox http://localhost:19531/ |
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""" |
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|
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> I somehow doubt it has any real security on it and I |
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> have seen programs write usernames and passwords to stdout/syslog when running |
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> with the default log-levels. |
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|
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Again, if you open it to the whole internet, you are either crazy, or |
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you don't know what you are doing. That's why it's an optional |
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feature, turned off by default in Gentoo (and every other distro), and |
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even if you turn it on, you need to start the service manually (as the |
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example in the commit message says) so you can use the feature. |
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|
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Since systemd is highly modular, systemd-journal-gatewayd is a |
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completely different binary, and libmicrohttp never touches at all PID |
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1. You can think of it as an extra utility that is shipped alongside |
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systemd, and that you don't even need to build if you don't want to. |
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|
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Regards. |
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|
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[1] http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/gummiboot/ |
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[2] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=7b17a7d72f5ba5ad838b19803534c56a46f3bce9 |
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-- |
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Canek Peláez Valdés |
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Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias |
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Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México |