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On Tuesday 17 July 2007, burlingk@×××××××××.mil wrote about 'RE: |
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[gentoo-user] 2 to 3??': |
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> > -----Original Message----- |
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> > From: lunarcrisis@×××××.com [mailto:lunarcrisis@×××××.com] On |
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> > Behalf Of Henk Boom |
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> > On 16/07/07, Volker Armin Hemmann |
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> > <volker.armin.hemmann@××××××××××××.de> wrote: |
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> > > because gplv3 removes freedom? |
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> > |
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> > As far as I remember from when I read it, it does not take |
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> > any freedoms which the previous versions did not intend to. |
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> |
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> The four freedoms: |
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> Freedom 0: The freedom to run a program for any purpose. |
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> Freedom 1: To study the way a program works, and adapt it to your needs. |
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> Freedom 2: To redistribute copies so that you can help your neighbors. |
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> Freedom 3: Improve the program, and release your improvements to |
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> the public, so that the whole community benefits. |
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> For freedom 1 and 3 to work, the code must be open. |
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> |
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> Freedom 1 is just as important as the other three. Freedom one is |
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> almost eliminated in GPLv3. |
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|
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Absolutely not. Freedom 1 is stronger than EVER. The distributor of GPLv3 |
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licensed works is now prevented from using technological, and patent-law |
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means to limit users' freedoms, including freedom 1. Under the GPLv2, |
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technological means (DRM) wasn't covered at all, and patent provisions |
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where not nearly as explicit. |
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|
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Remember that the GPL has always been about all the users NOT just the |
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developers/distributors -- "adapt it to your needs" is not allowed when it |
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restricts other users' freedoms. |
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|
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Think about RMS' printer incident, where the driver/firmware was crap but |
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locked down so he couldn't fix it. Free software should not be able to be |
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locked down in that way (among other things); in this day and age, that |
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means preventing Free Software from undergoing "Tivoization". |
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|
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> Stallman used to be so set |
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> on THAT mindset (software vs. hardware), that he was in favor of |
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> those groups that didn't want to make the source code of every ROM |
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> chip they made open to the world, |
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|
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Sure. Stallman, last I heard, is still in the camp that code on read-only |
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memory is part of the hardware, and does not necessarily need to be Free |
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Software -- it might as well be an IC rather than code. HOWEVER, he |
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believes code that *can* upgraded -- such as BIOSes that support flashing, |
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or firmware that is loaded into chip memory by the OS, any bits that |
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execute and CAN be changed -- should be Free Software, especially if it is |
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derived from (in the copyright sense) Free Software. |
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|
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That's what is especially irksome about "Tivoization", the distributor of |
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the software (Tivo) has more rights than the users' of the software (us). |
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For a license (GPLv2) whose goal is to protect all users' freedoms, and |
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values users' freedom over developers/distributors to be turned |
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upside-down by technological means is unacceptable -- prompting the |
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development of GPLv3 to correct the situation. |
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|
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> GPLV3 says, if you want to use code in a public way, you have |
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> to crack open your box so that people can play with it however |
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> they want, and then that potentially compromised box still has |
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> to be able to connect to your network if it connected in it's |
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> unmodified form. That very much deals with the hardware. |
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|
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The GPLv3 says if you covey software to a user under the licence, that user |
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must be able to upgrade the software and use it in the same way they used |
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the software you gave them. That's actually what the GPLv2 says as well, |
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although it doesn't specifically ban technological measures that |
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accomplish that goal. |
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|
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If you want to allow your code to be locked up by someone else, use BSD. |
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If you want to lock your code up yourself, use a proprietary license. |
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If you want all users of your software to have the four freedoms, use |
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GPLv3. |
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|
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> Under the spirit of the GPL, one could take code and use what |
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> they could. They still had to have the technical capabilities |
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> to use that code, and understand the platform it was on. |
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|
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Not quite true. Under the spirit of the GPL, anyone could take code they |
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were provided under the license and use what anyone could, they didn't |
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have to understand the code to benefit from improvements others made. |
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Gentoo (and other distributions) regularly patch code that I don't |
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understand and I end up getting an improved version of KDE/GNOME/X and the |
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entities behind those projects don't (and shouldn't be able to) prevent |
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Gentoo from providing that service. |
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|
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> Under the new version, if you don't understand the code, then |
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> something must be wrong with the code. |
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|
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Not true. |
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|
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> If the code is full of |
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> machine dependant features that cannot compile on another type |
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> of machine, then something must be wrong with the code. |
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|
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Not true. Even if something *was* wrong with the code, code quality is not |
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enforced by the GPl (any version). |
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|
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> Free Software is about Freedom. GPLv3 is about religion. You |
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> are free as long as you do things our way. |
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|
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GPLv2 also places a load of restrictions on distributors to ensure that all |
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users get all four freedoms. GPLv3 places more, necessary restrictions |
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since GPLv2 has allowed distributors to effectively remove users' |
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freedoms. The GPLv3 is all about freedom -- but freedom is only realized |
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by restricting the ability to limit freedom. ("Your freedom to swing your |
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fist ends an inch from my face.") |
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|
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> That is why I shy away from the GPL licenses. I like the |
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> LGPLv2, but GPLv3 is kind of scary. I want code that I make |
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> free to be free. :P I don't want to say, "It is free if you |
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> are a broke penniless college kid that plans to stay that way." |
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|
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Sounds like you want the GPL then -- since it explicitly allows commercial |
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use as long as the four freedoms are preserved to all users. |
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|
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> LGPLv2 allows wide use of code, without heavy demands. |
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|
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LGPL does do one thing that can be nice, and it prevents the viral nature |
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of copyright law from affecting your code -- that is it allows others the |
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freedom to license their original work under whatever license they choose |
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(as you did), combine it with your work, and distribute the whole as long |
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as they follow your license for your stuff. |
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|
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It's a very good license, and I think that it is normally the better |
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license to choose *unless* your goal is to have all software be Free |
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Software. |
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|
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> If I by some miracle produce a chunk of code that propels another |
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> entity to the top of their industry, then I have achieved something |
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> Whether I get anything in return from them or not. If they |
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> are able to take what I have produced and make it useful, then |
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> more power too them. If they give back to the community in the |
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> form of code, cash, or even morale support, then that is them |
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> playing the game by our rules. |
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|
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Not if you follow the GPLv2 or the spirit of the GPL. That *requires* the |
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code to remain in the community. The GPLv3 strengthens this requirement. |
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If you want other to be able to lock away your code (or derivative works |
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of your code) you should use the BSD license. |
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|
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-- |
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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. |
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bss03@××××××××××.net ((_/)o o(\_)) |
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ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' |
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http://iguanasuicide.org/ \_/ |