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On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 10:51 AM, Ian Zimmerman <itz@××××××××××××.org> wrote: |
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> On 2017-07-11 09:02, Rich Freeman wrote: |
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> |
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>> > I use GNOME with Wayland for some time and I actually didn't notice |
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>> > that I switched until I tried to get synergy working ( mouse sharing |
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>> > software, which only works on X ), seems like GDM automatically |
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>> > chose Wayland since some upgrade. XWayland works pretty seamlessly |
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>> > as well, so I'll just stay with Wayland for now, but it might be |
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>> > more annoying to use it with other DEs/WMs. |
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> |
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>> > However, I have less screen tearing with fullscreen applications |
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>> > with Wayland than I had with X ( with radeon + mesa ). |
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> |
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>> My sense is that this is probably what people would see. It will |
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>> probably work fine for any of the major DEs, but you'll find these |
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>> little cases of tools that aren't ported. One BIG area that will be |
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>> affected is X11 forwarding. I'm not sure if that works over ssh or |
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>> not with wayland, but wayland in general doesn't support network |
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>> sockets. |
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> |
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> What about "3rd party" window managers like openbox? From my limited |
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> understanding of wayland, that functionality just goes out of the window |
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> (OOPS, sorry); window management becomes a responsibility of the toolkit |
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> and there is no way to plug in a different one. |
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|
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I'm going out on a limb a bit here, but my understanding is not so |
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much that it is impossible for arbitrary applications to talk to |
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wayland (that seems silly - it is just an API). Rather, the major |
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toolkits simply have already done all the hard work so that if you use |
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one of those toolkits then your application will work. |
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|
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I'm sure there is no reason an application that doesn't use qt/gtk/etc |
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couldn't just make direct calls to wayland. However, it will require |
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a lot more porting work on the part of upstream, and so it probably |
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won't happen quickly. |
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|
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In the same way an application written to use QT probably can be made |
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to work on OSX or Windows with very little additional work, because |
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the toolkits provide a single API across all the platforms. You could |
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write an application that works on all these platforms without using a |
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toolkit, but then the developer needs to maintain all the API |
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abstraction. |
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|
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Getting back to openbox/etc, I suspect that you have a couple of extremes here: |
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|
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* Full-fledged DEs like Gnome/KDE. They have a ton of functionality |
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that would be impacted by Wayland, but they also use toolkits that |
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have probably already taken care of this. |
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* Very minimal window managers (think fvwm/twm/etc). They may not use |
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a toolkit that was ported, but on the other hand their functionality |
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is minimal and porting might not be so hard. Also, there seems to be |
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some effort to port more minimal toolkits like motif to wayland. |
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* In-between environments (think xfce, openstep, etc). They don't |
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benefit from the toolkit but still have a lot of functionality to |
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port. I heard that xfce is being ported to gtk for just this reason. |
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|
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I suspect that Wayland is going to drive adoption of gtk/qt much more |
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widely. For the effort of directly porting to Wayland you could just |
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port to gtk and then get coverage on other platforms as well. |
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|
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> |
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> Or does xwayland help with that? I'll be grateful for an explanation of |
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> this area, as I'm worried about the future of the X server but I'm also |
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> married to openbox. |
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> |
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|
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I suspect that xwayland would cover some of this, but I haven't messed |
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with either. |
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|
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-- |
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Rich |