Re: [gentoo-user] planning a new machine : comments welcome

[Frank Steinmetzger]

Am Wed, Mar 02, 2022 at 02:39:26PM -0500 schrieb Philip Webb:

> After  > 6 years , I'm planning to build a new machine ANB6.

Ah, the endorphin rush of planning a new PC. :)

My PC is now 7½ years old. I’m starting to think to upgrade its i5-4590 to a
Ryzen, too. Was thinking of holding out for the new 7000 generation with its
powerful RDNA2 graphics, but alas, it’s infested with Microsoft Pluton. So
now I can’t decide what to do.

> Here's the list + a few comments ; '*' denotes presently prefered item :
>
> ANB6
>
> [ CPU : not much difference, but comments very welcome.
----------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
On the contrary, they are quite different, all three of them. See below.

> I've had good luck with AMD in the past, less so with Intel ]
>
>   220208 CPU AMD : CPAMD00131 : Ryzen 7 : 5700G :  8-core 16-thread : $ 388
>                     Socket AM4 : 3,8 / 4,6 GHz : Radeon Graphix Wreath Stealth

If you don’t do games, the 5700G will make you not require a dedicated
graphics card (the G is for graphics).

Apropos: I recently read a news article that AMD is going to include a small
integrated graphics unit into all of their chips in the future, much like
Intel has done until now. That iGPU will be about as powerful as a my i5’s
from 2015 (around 0.4 Tflops). So if you can wait for the next generation,
maybe that’s another option.

>           00055 : Ryzen 7 : 3700X :         7 nm : 8-core 16-thread : $ 400
>                    Socket AM4 : 3,6 / 4,4 GHz

That’s a Zen 2 chip. Are you sure you want an already outdated CPU for a
machine that is to last many years? On Gentoo even? Especially for that
price.

> *         00110 : Ryzen 7 : 5800X : ZEN 3 : 7 nm : 8-core 16-thread : $ 460
>                    Socket AM4 : 3,8 / 4,7 GHz boost

That’s the most powerful of the three, but also the most power hungry one.
The 5700G is a different architecture—basically mobile hardware in a desktop
package. The 5800X OTOH has a different chiplet design which gives it twice
the cache (but no iGPU), but which also causes it to consume and heat up
more.

> [ Mobo : ANB4 (previous machine, now stand-by) + ANB5 have Gigabyte ]
>
>   220219 Mobo AMD : MBASU00311 : Asus : Prime B550+ (Ryzen AM4) :     $ 180
>                      dual M.2 : PCle 4.0 : 1 GB Ethernet : SATA 6 Gbps
>                      USB 3.2 gen 2 Types A/C : Aura Sync RGB headers support
> *         MBGIG00145 : Gigabyte : X570 Aorus elite WIFI :             $ 220
>                      dual PCle 4.0 M.2 : Intel dual-band 802.11ac wireless
>                      front USB Type C : RGB Fusion 2.0

The latter has 2.5 Gb ethernet onboard and USB 3.2 Gen 2x2. That might come
in handy in a few years. OTOH, the X570 chipset definitely draws more power.
Unless you really need some of X570 high-performance features, I’d recommend
a cheaper (and more efficient) B-series chipset board.

It seems the Canada Computers website does not value technical
specifications much, I can’t find a detailed listing there. So here’s a
comparison of the two boads (on that site there is no Elite WIFI, but one
other Elite model):
https://skinflint.co.uk/?cmp=2295489&cmp=2644171

> [ Memory : Kingston has always performed well &  16 GB  sb adequate ]
>
>   220222 Memory : MEKIT00581 : Kingston : 2 x 8 = 16 GB               $ 110
>                    DDR4 3600 MHz CL17 dual channel

Your chosen CPUs can only support up to DDR4-3200. With a slower kit you
might save a few pennies. (or not, price differences are very tight). And
then select the one with the lowest latency (the number behind the “CL”).

I’d also say if you can afford it, go for a kit with two 16 GB sticks, so
you have room for upgrades later without having to get rid of the old ones.

> [ Graphics card : this seems to be the big problem. There are cheaper
> cards, but they're all "sold out" : apparently, there's a supply problem
> at present ; this was the cheapest in stock in late Feb ]

As mentioned; if you buy the 5700G, you don’t need one, unless you need a
lot of graphics power. The 5700G graphics achieves about 2 Tflops, which is
the same as my 130 W graphics card from 2015.

Also beware: the GPU model you chose is from NVidia. They are a pain to run
under Linux.

> [ SSD : Kingston as above :  1 TB  sb adequate ]
>
>   220222 SSD : SSKIT00058 : Kingston : 512 GB                         $  95
>                 KC600 SATA3 6 GB/s 2,5" R 550 W 520 MB/s
>
> *              SSKIT00069 : Kingston : 1 TB                           $ 170
>                 KC600 SATA3 6 GB/s 2,5" R 550 W 520 MB/s

The boards you chose have several m.2 slots. This form factor has the nice
advantage that it doesn’t need any cabling.

>                SSSAS00105 : Samsung : 500 GB                          $ 100
>                 870EVO SATA3 R 560 W 530 MB/s
>
>                SSSAS00106 : Samsung : 1 TB                            $ 140
>                 870EVO SATA3 R 560 W 530 MB/s

I have no bad experience with or opinion about Kingston. But they buy
components for their drives from other companies, whereas Samsung, WD and
Micron (Crucial) do everything in-house. So there is a bigger guarantee that
you get quality components. Manufacturers tend to swap out components these
days depending on available supply. There has been upheaval about companies
sending out review items to the press and then silently replacing the
internals with cheaper stuff later on, even going so far as to replace TLC
with much slower QLC NAND. (Sadly, Samsung and WD are among the culprits.)

>                SSWEE00015 : W Digital : 500 GB                        $  90
>                 3D NAND SATA R 560 W 530 MB/s
>
>                SSWEE00015 : W Digital : 1 TB                          $ 140
>                 3D NAND SATA M.2 2280 R 560 W 530 MB/s

There seems to be a mistake: the product code is the same for both.

Why do you only choose SATA SSDs? PCIe SSDs are much much faster. During
normal operation, you won’t notice it much, but especially IOPs are
considerably higher than with SATA, meaning a big boost when you are dealing
with many small files (portage, anyone?).

WOL said:
>> If you're planning to use the mobo's SATA ports, just make sure you know how
>> many will be usable. Both an M2 board and a Graphics board nick PCIe
>> channels, and the mobo may disable SATA ports to free them up ...

The “main” m.2 slot is connected directly to the CPU via 4×PCIe (3.0 for the
5700G, 4.0 for the other two). Those lanes are not available for any other
purposes. The remaining m.2 slots are hooked up via the chipset, and the
board manufacturer may decide how to distribute the available lanes.

> [ HDD : for back-up + alternative OS (Mint).
> ANB5 has Seagate : anyone prefer W Digital & if so, why ? ]
>
> * 220222 HDD : HDSEA00144 : Seagate : 2 TB                            $  55
>                 SATA 3,5" 7200 RPM
>
>                HDWD002115 : W Digital : 1 TB                          $  60
>                 SATA 3,5" 6 GB/s 7200 RPM 64 MB cache

WOL said:
>> WD Black? Again, probably SMR. The BarraCuda looks cheaper, bigger, better.

No, blacks are not. WD has done itself a great disservice with the hidden SMR
migration, but blacks are supposed to be the top-performance series.
See for yourself; no SMR-drive in the line-up:
https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=hde7s&xf=10287_WDuscBLACK%7E3772_3.5%7E957_Western+Digital

However, fast-spinning 7200 rpm drives draw more power, thus produce more
heat and especially vibration and thus noise. If it’s just for backup and
the occasional experiment with an OS, I’d suggest a slower-spinning
alternative.

According to
https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=hde7s&xf=10287_Blue%7E3772_3.5%7E8457_non-SMR%7E957_Western+Digital%7E959_5400
the WD blue is available with up to 6 TB as a non-SMR slow-rotating
alternative. Beware: there are also 7200 rpm blues in all sizes.
(On a sidenote, slow spinning WD Reds are also only available up to 6 TB,
anything bigger is 7200 rpm.)

Also, the price difference between 2 and a few more TB is not big. Why not
go for a little more, to be future-proof?

OTOH, I am actually planning on replacing my current setup of 500 GB SATA
SSD (for system and home) plus 1 TB HDD (WD blue for bulk data) with a
single M.2 PCIe SSD of 2 TB. Right now the HDD is the loudest component and
I want to quieten it down.

So instead of an SSD *and* an HDD, I propose to consider a single 2 TB PCIe
SSD instead. Good models are the Samsung 970 Plus or the WD Black SN750. A
little cheaper (and slower, but still much faster than SATA) is the WD Blue
SN550 2 TB. But beware: SN550 models smaller than 2 TB are subject to covert
component swapping.

> [ Power : ANB5 has Thermaltake : is  700 W  likely to be adequate ? ]

Without a GPU, even 300 would be fine. With a GPU, I’d say around 500…600.
But I’m not a gamer. I’ve been running with my i5 (84 W) and a Radeon GPU
(130 W) with a 300 W PSU for the entire 7½ years now. But back then, TDP
meant maximum. Nowadays, the actual power draw is much more fluently
defined.

> [ Wifi : currently, I'm using a landline for Internet,
> but my new apartment has free Wifi.  Is it standard on Mobos these days ? ]

No, some have it, some don’t. But I’d always prefer cable if possible. You
don’t have radio interference from the neighbors, higher and more stable
throughput and better security.

> [ Sound : I've never installed sound on my computers, but it wb nice.

Really? I’m baffled. Don’t you listen to any music or watch videos
sometimes (well on the computer, I mean)?

> Do all Mobos have a sound chip today ? -- I'm an utter novice here ]

Yes (unless you consider a server board). Their functionality and quality
varies. Basically, the higher the ALC model number, the “better”. There are
those who deem on-board chips inferior. But if you don’t have the highest
quality requirements or do audio productions which need very low noise, then
you’ll be fine.

> [ DVD drive : I don't believe I need this anymore ]
>
>   DVD ?

I do use them from time to time to watch DVDs that I own or took out from
the library. I don’t do any of this streaming business.

Why not use the one from ANB5? I postulate there hasn’t been any
technological progress in the last decade, so ye olde drive will do just
fine.

-- 
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