1 |
Rich Freeman <rich0 <at> gentoo.org> writes: |
2 |
|
3 |
|
4 |
> So, I realize there are many strong opinions regarding systemd, but |
5 |
> this comes across a bit like, "one should be well-accustomed to |
6 |
> building and operating a Linux-From-Scratch installation before one |
7 |
> attempts to master the (Ubuntu) beast." |
8 |
|
9 |
Rich, embedded is my background. I'm more of an EE |
10 |
over the years. so YES, to me it is very important to |
11 |
understand hardware and the firmwares that allow all |
12 |
of the OO-gui stuffage that exists (and is wonderfull). |
13 |
|
14 |
I remember when CS was a group of wacko's down the hall in a closet...... |
15 |
|
16 |
> Sure, all that auto-magic stuff does add complexity, but it does so |
17 |
> with the goal of standardizing and automating this so that you can use |
18 |
> the system without having to worry about all the details. If you are |
19 |
> running a systemd service you can set the various cgroup controls like |
20 |
> IO and CPU class/priority in the unit and it will take care of |
21 |
> managing the cgroup for you. |
22 |
|
23 |
You have an idealized view of what is going on in the cluster code spaces. |
24 |
(systemd issue abound aplenty). Folks are just loading binaries on top |
25 |
of binaries and look for salvation via config files. As a hardware engineer, |
26 |
you must have a firm (solid) foundation. Opaqueness does not equal solid. |
27 |
What linun had was firm and scope_able. With systemd, I'm not so sure,ymmv. |
28 |
|
29 |
If the systemd devs and perveyors feel pressure to make systemd a |
30 |
superior technology; what's wrong with that? I like the promise |
31 |
of systemd; I *hate* the way it has been jammed down on everyone. That |
32 |
sort of approach is certain to illicit a nasty response. Really, we have to |
33 |
abondon what has worked reasonable well, whilst we tweak something that |
34 |
is still morpologically a mystery? Now that I'm finally getting around to |
35 |
learning deeply about cgroups, I like that very very much too. Despite |
36 |
what many "experts" have said, I think the traditional approach has |
37 |
a very long life ahead. |
38 |
|
39 |
OK? so, we do not have to go any deeper into this, do we? |
40 |
|
41 |
|
42 |
> Certainly learning the nuts and bolts of how it all works is |
43 |
> worthwhile - I wouldn't be running Gentoo if I felt otherwise. |
44 |
> However, you really don't have to know how to build your own service |
45 |
> manager to use one. |
46 |
|
47 |
Your talking to a guy that used punch cards, wire_wrapped boards |
48 |
and used seven-segment-LEDs. You sure you want to go this route? |
49 |
Another old fart I know, build chips that support things that go |
50 |
beyond mach 7. The old ways are the best ways and one day they |
51 |
will be "re-discovered", imho. As an embedded-old-fart, I have |
52 |
boards running 2.2 based linux kernels. I wish LFS had been around |
53 |
back then..... I got stuff that "bootstraps" a microP with assembler code. |
54 |
|
55 |
|
56 |
> As far as docs go - what specifically is unclear? Systemd is rapidly |
57 |
> evolving so things do get out of date, but for the most part stuff |
58 |
> like this can be found in man systemd.exec and such. Lennart's series |
59 |
> of blog posts on system administration using systemd is a very good |
60 |
> place to start. |
61 |
|
62 |
I think once Lennart moves on to something else (as many have pondered) |
63 |
systemd will become more attractive. In my youth, I did not understand |
64 |
'good manners' and lennart epitomizes some episodes in my tempetuous youth I |
65 |
regret. Somebody needs to leash that guy, imho. He's not great or wonderful. |
66 |
He is a loose cannon at best. Nothing anyone is going to say, write, or do |
67 |
will replace the harm he has sowed with his rude manners. HE does not have |
68 |
the right to play god with the linux kernel. Neither does that idiot Linus, |
69 |
imho. The kernel belongs to *everyone*. |
70 |
|
71 |
You and the other systemd (herd/project) dudes are wonderful. Right now, |
72 |
I just like openrc/cgroups/assembler and stories from other old_farts. |
73 |
You young whipper_snappers should be very glad us old farts still hack |
74 |
and hang out like we do. Kids might look at him and say "Wow". Older folks |
75 |
just murmur under their breath that this snot_nosed_kid should have been |
76 |
bitch_slapped by that idiot Linus. He failure to reign in that looser |
77 |
cannot be white_washed by anyone; so let's just let this go....... |
78 |
The more I read about the entire affair the more pissed I get. |
79 |
|
80 |
|
81 |
peace (at least inside my faraday_cage), |
82 |
James |
83 |
|
84 |
|
85 |
[1] http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Systemd |