Gentoo Archives: gentoo-user

From: Tom Wijsman <TomWij@g.o>
To: bircoph@×××××.com
Cc: gentoo-user@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:52:35
Message-Id: 20140320175208.035c7a9c@gentoo.org
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie by Andrew Savchenko
1 On Tue, 18 Feb 2014 21:06:33 +0400
2 Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@×××××.com> wrote:
3
4 > Real world code without mistakes and larger than "Hello, world!"
5 > exercises is not possible. Large systems must have error suppression
6 > and correction techniques, modular and replaceable design is one of
7 > them, KISS is another one. Systemd has none known to me.
8
9 systemd does have both, see myths #6 and #29 of the biggest myths.
10
11 [1]: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
12
13 > This depends on what bug at what component occurred. Just imagine
14 > pid 1 segfault on medical life support equipment. With systemd going
15 > into embedded this is not just pure speculation, though, of course
16 > medical stuff should have extra safeguards. But any FT or at
17 > least HA setup is a combination of multiple layers. I do not want to
18 > allow badly broken core component on mine setups even if its faults
19 > may be compensated by other means.
20
21 That's assuming the target public of systemd is medical life support
22 equipment; however, that is certainly not the case which makes that an
23 irrelevant example in this context.
24
25 When talking about life critical support, you'll need to have proper
26 specification and checks to have a guarantee; we've seen the APL
27 language and Z notation early on in this field, as well as evolutions
28 from and beside that.
29
30 Most life critical systems are based on such things; throwing whatever
31 thing on such a system, like the first open-source project you can
32 find, is is not how such systems are made.
33
34 Faults, if they happen at all, being compensated imo suffices for non
35 life critical systems; if you want more, you know the languages,
36 notations, checking tools and other practices are out there to benefit
37 from. An init system and/or service manager based on life critical
38 support standards would definitely have my interest; however, I am
39 wondering if there's anyone that wants to spend his free time on that.
40
41 > Yet again, I respect ones right to use whatever one wants, but I ask
42 > to respect mine as well. That's why I propose a separate systemd
43 > profile for those willing to use it.
44
45 They are there, `find /usr/portage/profiles/ -name '*systemd*'`.
46
47 > > >> Sorry, but it's you who doesn't know the matter at hand: kdbus
48 > > >> was (and is) written by Greg Kroah-Hartman, Linus' right hand,
49 > > >> and who works for the Linux Foundation.
50 > > >
51 > > > Lol, he seems to start to use the arguments like "You even do not
52 > > > know my elder brother/acquaintance from the street nearby who can
53 > > > easily hit you down!"
54 > >
55 > > If you don't think Greg's words have any weight in a Linux-related
56 > > technical discussion, then I'm afraid we will need to agree to
57 > > disagree on any technical subject.
58 >
59 > You know, common sense should always override person's prestige.
60 > History knows many examples. Sir Isaac Newton enforced corpuscular
61 > point of view on the light's nature. And while he was genius in other
62 > physical aspects, he was mistaken here. Albert Einstein was rejective
63 > to probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics and even proposed an
64 > entangled particles paradox as an example of its "flawed" nature.
65 > Though as we know these days such systems exist and are quite well
66 > used in numerous experiments. My point is simple: do not blindly
67 > adhere to someone's words, even if this person has high authority.
68 > Common sense must prevail. Period.
69
70 +1
71
72 --
73 With kind regards,
74
75 Tom Wijsman (TomWij)
76 Gentoo Developer
77
78 E-mail address : TomWij@g.o
79 GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D
80 GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D

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