Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 3.5.10 in portage...

On Tuesday 16 September 2008 21:04:11 Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote:
> On Sunday 14 September 2008 22:37:21 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > > > Making the 'official' overlay paludis-only was a BIG mistake.
> > >
> > > It's not "paludis-only", it will work with any package manager whose
> > > developers care enough to support the useful features of the kdebuild-1
> > > EAPI.
> >
> > and that was an official api? Yes? No?
>
> Official according to whom? It is a stable and well documented eapi that
> any package manager that regards those features to be useful can implement.
>
> > Was it needed? No - proven by kdesvn-portage
>
> And noone ever claimed otherwise.
>
> [...]
>
> > > The KDE overlay isn't produced by the "paludis-group".
> >
> > no, it was just made by vivid paludis fans. Hey, lets make an overlay a
> > lot of user want - and make it paludis only. That way we can push
> > paludis!
>
> Wow. What do you base this nonsense on?
>
> > > No, to provide ebuilds that make use of useful features that benefit
> > > both users and developers.
> >
> > which one? Which features 'benefit both users and developers' and are
> > sooo important that the kde overlay had to be paludis only?
> >
> > Name them please.
>
> - '-scm' support (--dl-reinstall-scm for users)
> - use dependencies (no surprising interruptions mid-merge)
> - suggestions (you see them upfront rather than in elog messages
> afterwards) - sets
>
> The latter of these is not subject to eapi but incredibly useful when
> dealing with huge amounts of packages. It obsoletes meta packages and makes
> reinstalls or uninstalls of all packages in the sets trivial. For Paludis
> it also means that you can unmask/keyword two hundred packages just by
> addding the sets to your packages.{keywords,unmask} equivalents. Both
> Paludis and Portage 2.2 now has sets support although the details of their
> implementations vary greatly.
>
> > Oh, does paludis support and equivalent to 'keep-going' or
> > '--ignore-failures' or are people who wants this extremly usefull
> > features still attacked and insulted?
>
> Paludis had --continue-on-failure long before --keep-going was implemented
> in Portage (which is months after the creation of the kdebuild overlay).
> This is also one of the advantages that users of live KDE ebuilds got by
> using Paludis (or get if you consider the additional flexibility when
> compared to --keep-going to be useful).
>
> On Monday 15 September 2008 00:38:18 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > lets see - an overlay is setup to develop and test ebuilds for KDE4 that
> > should some day go into the tree.
> >
> > Deciding to use a feature that the official pm does not provide - and
> > only one of the three makes the 'testing' part and 'for the tree' pretty
> > superfluos.
>
> And again I wonder what you base this nonsense on. Perhaps you never ever
> bothered to look at this overlay, what it provides or what the intentions
> behind it was?
>
> As one of the original decision makers behind it I can tell you, that we
> never intended to put any of these ebuilds in the tree. For this reason it
> also never contained any release of KDE. Releases were maintained
> separately in the tree using eapi 1. It only contains live ebuilds. Which
> is where '-scm' and sets support provide the biggest advantages.
>
> And we didn't do it to harass users. We did it because we wanted to get
> some real world experience with some of the features that Paludis had
> provided for years yet there were no indications Portage would support any
> time soon. Live KDE packages was deemed the place where adding this
> requirement made the most sense. Managing two hundred packages without
> those features is pain anyway.
>
> We decided that the monthly KDE releases that we were packaging and adding
> to the main tree using eapi 1 were frequent enough for those who didn't
> want Paludis for whatever reason. If anybody disagreed with that they could
> maintain their own overlay (which they did/do). We also announced it over
> three weeks before we actually made it happen so anybody who cared about
> the live KDE ebuilds can't really complaim about having been caught by
> surprise.
Actually on that I can rely. I've been using the kde-svn back when it was 
portage "allowed", and I must say it has been an improvement switching to 
paludis. As a user I find --continue-on-failure much better and flexible than 
--skip-first and on a "live" scm tree as this overlay has it is much needed.( 
I don't know about --keep-going since it has been implemented only after I've 
switched to paludis). I like paludis and it's my choise to use it. To each his 
own. 
Also don't flatter your selves I wouldn't(would) use a package just because 
some dev said something about some other dev, or discard(like) it because some 
conversation on IRC. I know what is right for me. So keep using 
emerge/gnome/bsd whatever fits you and let's ALL continue with our lives!