Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo still on the right path?

[Daniel da Veiga]

On 11/16/05, Derek Tracy <tracyde@×××××.com> wrote:
> This is a lot longer than I originally intended it to be so if you want the
> jist of it skip to the end.
>
> (DISCLAIMER: Let me start off by saying that this is truly not a flame but
> more of a concern.  So please do not flame me for stating my
> opinions/concerns.)

Guess you won't get any flames, just considerable advices, cause we
don't wanna loose a Gentooer :)

> I have been an avid Gentoo User for 2 and 1/2 years now.  I have installed
> Gentoo on many different platforms including HPPA and Sparc, not too mention
> the countless x86 installs.  I have never had a problem, every install has
> went smooth.  I have done both Stage3 and Stage1 installs (I have always
> preferred a Stage1 install).
>
> Recently, I decided that it was time to reinstall due to the numerous
> packages that I had installed and different DE's / WM configurations, and I
> must admit that I have recently been diving into LVM2 and encryption (I
> figured that starting from scratch would be my best bet).  In the past I
> have always leaned toward ~x86 (I love bleeding edge).  But since this was
> going to be a new install I decided to do the preferred method and set all
> ~x86 flags via /etc/portage/package.keywords for specific packages.

I would never even consider completely reinstall a working
environment, specially one that installation and configuration is 90%
of the work you'll ever have dealing with the machine (except maybe
for hardware failures).

> Now since we have the background we will get to the questions at hand.
> During this install I have run into nothing but problems.  I boot from the
> livecd just fine (if I append nopcmcia and dolvm2) and everything goes
> smooth.  NOTE: I am performing this install step by step from the online
> handbook with a slight modification I am using LVM2 for /usr /usr/portage
> /opt /var /tmp /home (I figured I would take advantage of some setuid
> security procedures).  Part way through the online handbook I noticed that
> they standardized the Stage3 install.  I figured that since the developers
> thought it was best to use a Stage3 install then why not give it a shot.  So
> I installed everything according to the handbook and all went well until I
> restarted.

You see, I'm one of those guys that think: "if you got the livecd
working, network, maybe video, sound or anything else with NO DISC,
your system is gentooable". :) of course you may run into problems
accourding to your config and special needs, it always happened to me,
but hey, at least you know what you're doying, not like those easy,
complete, fast and general installations that keeps LOTS of trash
making your system crawl compared to a clean, wise and configurated
environment.

> After restarting I noticed that ipw2200 did not load properly was posted in
> my boot mesg WTF.  I distinctly remembered during the install that I waited
> until after I installed the kernel, then I went ahead and installed the
> external modules.  (NOTE: I did not use the built in kernel modules for
> ipw2200 or ieee80211 I had read too many horror stories about incompatible
> versions of ipw2200-firmware and I have always had good luck with the
> external drivers)  One other thing, instead of going for pure on the edge
> goodness of using a Nitro-esque kernel (one optimized for speed over
> stability) I decided to use Gentoo-sources again trusting the developers
> judgement.  After searching through tons of articles regarding ipw2200
> drivers not working with the latest "Stable" Gentoo-Sources I decided to go
> with the kernel drivers and give them a shot.  I recompiled rebooted and low
> and behold the drivers still weren't working.  After trying all sorts of
> different combinations Unstable versions of this stable versions of that.
> Nothing worked, so I proceeded to reboot back into the livecd and re-chroot
> into my system so I could get a network connection and install the Madwifi
> Drivers, for a pcmcia card that I have laying around.  Also note that the
> Madwifi drivers are considered Unstable.  I rebooted the computer and the
> drivers actually worked (Yea Unstable).  So I got the network connection up,
> then I decided to go ahead and install X (I thought that it would be easier
> to troubleshoot the ipw drivers from a graphical environment copy, paste,
> multiple xterms.).  Well I compiled and installed Xorg and compiled and
> installed nvidia-kernel nvidia-glx, and what do you think happened (btw I
> copied over a backed up xorg.conf from the last installation so I know that
> that conf file works and is correct) I went to startx...........It kicked
> back saying screens were found but no usable configs......So down
> troubleshooting lane I went.  I recompiled, verified I did not have agpgart
> / dri enabled in kernel, then with both in kernel, stable and unstable
> versions of nvidia-kernel / nvidia-glx, everything a no go.. I finally
> settled with using Xorg's nv driver.  Now here I am with a really nice
> laptop (Sony S-460) but with no video hardware acceleration, the inablility
> to use the built in wireless card (NOTE: before the reinstall everything was
> working).
>
> So now I am waiting for the whole system to recompile using ~x86 (the so
> called "Unstable" packages) and I will see if that works or not.

I'm a stable user, so, would never do that, can't predict what can go wrong...

> I am seriously reconsidering finding another OS to use, this whole headache
> has been totally ridiculous.  I could see this if I would have emerged all
> of the unstable packages to begin with or even perform a Stage1 install
> after the developers decided to make the Stage3 the default.  But I didn't I
> did everything according to the documentation (and I triple checked that I
> did not skip anything).

Well, Gentoo is choices, you can even choose not to use it, but it was
always the best choice for everything Linux I've needed so far... OK,
so, I spent a week configuration my last system install, but its
working for about 3 months now, flawless, it was worth the time spent.
At home, it took me a month to completely setup the system, including
Xorg and Desktop Manager, well, nine or so months flawless, my memory
was gone bad, my CD drive broke, and still, my system OS is up-to-date
and running. Never got nothing like this with any OS I've tried.

> So with all of this said if the developers do not start testing everything a
> little more thoroughly then I predict there will be a serious drop in the
> number of Gentoo Followers out there.  Especially if a Gentoo Veteren has
> this hard of a time installing the operating system that I love.

I can sincerely disagree with you. And that's why I have spread the
word and made a lot of friends start working with gentoo, most of them
liked it and are spreading the word. Of course, installing gentoo is a
time consuming task, configuring it is even more time consuming, but
hey, that's a small price to pay for complete control over your
system.

> When a branch is marked stable all of the packages in that branch should
> work, yes there will always be configuration glitches but the problems I
> have had during this install were not from configuration glitches.  They are
> what looks like incompatible packages and numerous other things.  If Gentoo
> is going to continue to grow then we as a community need to speak up about
> things like this.

Testing is hard work, I would not blame the Gentoo Team for this,
there are infinite combinations of hardware, software and configs that
may cause different problems, and if you want a working system that is
flawless, fast and reliable, you give up some good stuff from other
OSs, like easy installs, easy hardware replacement, easy
configuration.

This is just my 2 cents, many people will disagree, but I won't change
my OS for a long time, Gentoo rocks, and small changes (like stage1
for stage3 default install) won't harm me that much, I choose installs
depending on hardware and network availability, not just because one
is faster or default. I'm even considering Gentoo compatibility when
buying new hardware for my systems, and advicing my fellows at work to
do the same, if Gentoo runs it, to hell with the rest.

> --
> ---------------------------------
> Derek Tracy
> tracyde@×××××.com
> ---------------------------------
>



--
Daniel da Veiga
Computer Operator - RS - Brazil
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