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On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 10:35 AM, <covici@××××××××××.com> wrote: |
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> |
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> Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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> > Just a few clarifications below. |
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> > |
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> > One thing this discussion is missing is any mention of BIOS / EFI. |
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> > Most of the discussion below seems most relevant to a legacy BIOS |
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> > installation. Many specialized Gentoo install docs, like mdadm+lvm, |
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> > don't really make mention of EFI, or other more recent developments. |
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> > Now that all the docs are on the wiki I'd strongly encourage anybody |
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> > with an interest to improve them. Many seasoned Gentoo users barely |
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> > reference the documentation these days and I think that is part of why |
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> > they've become a bit dated. |
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> > |
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> > A few of the topics below are somewhat controversial, particularly on |
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> > this list. I tried to stick to the facts and indicate where there is |
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> > a difference of opinion. I'd prefer not to rehash all the various |
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> > debates... |
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> > |
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> > On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Peter Humphrey <peter@××××××××××××.uk> |
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wrote: |
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> > > On Sunday 17 May 2015 12:48:58 Nuno Magalhães wrote: |
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> > > |
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> > >> (Later i want to get rid of systemd-udev and use eudev instead.) |
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> > > |
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> > > I use openrc, not systemd. It still works well and has less |
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complication - and |
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> > > less typing! |
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> > |
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> > Most people using openrc are also using systemd-udev (and there is a |
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> > good chance you do too). The latter was previously named udev and |
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> > long predates what most people call systemd. Eudev is a fork of udev, |
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> > which comes from after it came under the systemd umbrella, but before |
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> > the name change and a number of changes that were controversial. I |
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> > believe they try to incorporate many of the patches from systemd-udev |
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> > but some default behaviors are different. |
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> > |
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> > In any case, I just wanted to clarify that systemd-udev is not the |
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> > "systemd" you're probably thinking of. In particular, it doesn't |
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> > replace openrc or sysvinit. Systemd-udev largely is concerned with |
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> > populating /dev, and running initialization of hardware when it is |
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> > detected, based on a configurable set of rules. |
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> > |
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> > > |
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> > >> I intend to use XFS for /. Incidentally, if i later decide to "fork |
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> > >> out" /usr (or some other subdirectory) into it's own LV, is it "just" |
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> > >> a mater of copying its contents and updating /etc/fstab? Or should i |
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> > >> just do it now and expand the LVs if later required (especially if i |
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> > >> want to use different filesystems)? |
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> > > |
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> > > I can't help you with XFS. I know that ext4 in an LV in a VG in a PV |
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on RAID1 |
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> > > works reliably, even though it does look complex when I write it like |
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that. |
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> > |
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> > As far as LVM and xfs themselves go, you can do what you propose. |
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> > |
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> > However, Gentoo QA policy is that it is expected that /usr is mounted |
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> > early in boot. Various tools can break if it is not. Typically this |
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> > is the responsibility of an initramfs, however you can also use |
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> > scripts that run early during initialization from / which mount it. |
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> > If you just stick /usr in fstab and rely on openrc to mount it for you |
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> > normally, you may or may not have problems. |
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> > |
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> > It has been a long time since I actually used such a system in this |
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> > manner with Gentoo, but the last I saw discussion on it most who used |
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> > this configuration found it usually worked fine, unless you were using |
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> > something like a bluetooth keyboard or other key system component that |
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> > required a lot of userspace tooling to make work. However, as a |
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> > matter of policy you're on your own if you choose not to mount /usr |
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> > early during boot in some way. |
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> > |
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> > The reason it is not supported is that with the rise of things like |
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> > bluetooth the list of dependencies possibly required during early boot |
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> > has grown to the point where we'd end up not even having a /usr before |
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> > long. My sense is that for the most part most maintainers tend to |
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> > respect the traditional definition of / and /usr on Gentoo, and thus |
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> > you can often get away with doing things the traditional way. |
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> > However, the policy does allow us to end debates over things like udev |
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> > rules invoking some userspace tool in /usr and such. Some packages |
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> > more strongly depend on /usr being installed in early boot, and there |
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> > have been suggestions (but nothing concrete) that Gentoo consider |
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> > supporting the /usr-move that other distros have embraced (and that |
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> > would basically get rid of /lib, /bin, and so on). |
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> > |
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> > > |
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> > > Again, legacy grub here. But if you're using an initramfs, from what |
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I've seen |
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> > > you don't need to specify metadata 0.90. |
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> > |
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> > I used to use grub legacy and kernel RAID auto-assembly. As a result |
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> > I was using metadata 0.90. |
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> > |
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> > I found this configuration problematic on rare occasions. There is a |
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> > reason that mdadm changed the metadata, and why most distros don't do |
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> > it this way. (more below) |
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> > |
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> > > |
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> > > Damn. I've just checked and something has renamed my /dev/md7 to |
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> > > /dev/md127. Again. It's just too bad. I shall have to stop it when I |
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get a |
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> > > quiet moment and reassemble it into /dev/md7. Actually, I know what |
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caused |
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> > > it but I didn't notice at the time. |
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> > |
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> > And this was one of the configuration problems I ran into on rare |
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> > occasion. Often booting from a rescue CD or such caused something |
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> > like this to happen. |
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> > |
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> > One of the advantages of using an initramfs is that they can be a lot |
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> > smarter about finding your partitions. You can identify them by UUID |
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> > or label, and not care as much if mdadm or the kernel renames your |
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> > device nodes. |
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> > |
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> > I'd seriously take a look at dracut, though I don't know if it works |
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> > with eudev. It certainly should support openrc, and I know that it |
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> > did back when I was running openrc. It can also mount /usr for you, |
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> > and in fact it should automatically do so. It also respects your |
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> > fstab - it uses its internal logic and the kernel boot line to |
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> > initially find filesystems, but then it reads your /etc/fstab and |
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> > remounts everything as you define it there just in case something has |
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> > changed since the last time you built the initramfs/etc. You can |
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> > define your own modules for it which makes it reasonably easy to get |
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> > it to do anything at all during early boot, and it doesn't require |
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> > anything to be built static (it finds required shared objects anywhere |
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> > on the filesystem and includes them in the initramfs). It can also |
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> > give you a rescue shell if something goes wrong, and depending on your |
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> > settings you can make that rescue shell reasonably well-featured |
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> > (using either dash or bash as you prefer inside, and I imagine you |
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> > could tell it to install the other on the side). A while ago I needed |
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> > to run some btrfs tools that aren't in dracut by default and it was |
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> > trivial to tell dracut to include them, and I forced a shell on next |
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> > boot which gave me the latest tools and kernel without having to build |
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> > a rescue CD with them, and a bash shell to run them from. |
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> > |
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> > It certainly isn't necessary to use an initramfs to use Gentoo, and I |
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> > used to be among the more minimalist crowd that avoided them. |
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> > However, once I took the time to examine dracut it went from being a |
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> > blob that looked unnecessary to a tool that is often useful. |
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> |
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> Last time I tried to use dracut with openrc, it failed, I can't remember |
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> exactly what happened, I think udev did hang, but its been a while since |
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> this happened. Dracut uses systemd internally, so maybe this is part of |
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> the problem. |
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|
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Dracut only uses systemd optionally and (AFAIR) not by default. If you |
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don't specify it, dracut will use its own scripts as init. |
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|
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Regards. |
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-- |
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Canek Peláez Valdés |
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Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias |
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Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México |