[gentoo-user] Re: Custom ebuilds for CoreOS

[James]

Rich Freeman <rich0 <at> gentoo.org> writes:


> > ChromeOS is most definitely a Gentoo derivative [2,3,4], even though
> > that fact is not really well known (and not really publicised).

Thanks for the links. I did not see that bit of history...


> Interesting.  Talk about a march of init systems.  You have Gentoo
> which defaults to openrc and supports systemd, to ChromeOS which only
> supports upstart, to CoreOS which uses systemd.

I have always maintained that init system, is only critical choices,
because the cloud/cluster technologies are not yet mature. What you
get from these init system, can easily be established with a few
files at boot time (PXE and many others methods), that is what CoreOS
is doing, just in an updated fashion.


> In any case, the whole point of both ChromeOS and CoreOS is that
> they're hosts for running applications completely outside of the usual
> unix-y approach of sticking stuff in /usr.  Applications on ChromeOS
> are Chrome extensions and the like, and applications on CoreOS are
> containers.  The whole point of both is to abstract away all the guts
> of how the OS operates, so the choice of init really shouldn't matter
> much to anybody using either.  If you really want to stick stuff in
> /usr and interact with host processes directly, then you really should
> find a distro which isn't designed to be a black box in this regard.

Yes, your are correct, that is what the "cloud" vendors are striving for.
I see a  much deeper future, that leverages their ideas to invigorate Gentoo.


In the good old days, it was very common for folks to build up minimized
gentoo sytems, by starting of with "-*" in the USE settings of make.conf.
Sure now that sort of thing is frowned upon by the devs, but it was and 
is a very valid method to minimize the size and complexity of a system.
I still have running gentoo sytems with just a few flags set and with "-*"
in the USE settings. I do not sync them, but update them selectively in a
manual process. This yeilds a linux system, usually for a special purpose,
that is so minimized it's very close to a stipped/optimized embedded system.


WE seem to have lost the "embedded" focus here at gentoo. Gentoo-embedded,
as a discussion/sharing group seems to be dead; but I think it is
because most are slobberingly working on 64 bit arm offerings. Minimized
sytems can be delivered via something like CoreOS and then the other
codes (binaries whatever) can be added dynamically to yield a very
focused target system, a replacement system, or a parallel system to
handle a dynamic resource loading problem, jus to name a few reason
for the CoreOS approach to building up a cluster.

I do not see the "/usr" types of systems (like a current gentoo workstation
or server) going away any time soon. What I hope WE can pull off at Gentoo
is integration of the best of the CoreOS ideas into "Gentoo proper". I was
just very surprised to stumble across CoreOS; as it is what my hopes
(vision?) of Gentoo are to be, beside continuing the traditional linux
progression (/var/usr/local/home/etc..... )type of unix derivative OS. I do
believe that this traditional linux (what's left of unix) belongs to the
masses and "force feeding" of systemd was a very, very poorly made decision.

I do see the "Cloud vendors" eating away at the Microsoft and Apple user
base and large companies with masses of "clerical" employees.

So, to sum this up, in my view, is to say that CoreOS (ideas) offers us a
pathway to be able to build (via dynamic downloads) any system we want from
a minimized linux state machine on a 16 bit core, to a "-*" minimized gentoo
system or a full gentoo linux workstataion or server. Substitute "cluster
controlled by user" for "cloud" and I really like the CoreOS vision. I think
they have stolen the "Gentoo Grand Unification Theory" from us, because we
are "napping" here at Gentoo.

Just so folk know, a minimize system is far easier to keep secure, and
replace dynamically for whatever the failure reason is. I guess that CoreOS
is just building up  clusters from derivatives ot TFTPboot...... That is
what's old (farts) is new again, as it appears we are returning full circle.



YiPeeeeeeeeeeeee!

James