Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Mick <michaelkintzios@×××××.com> wrote:
[ snip ]
> I am not sure if people object to the Lennart-way of messing up Linux, under
> the blessings of RHL, or if they just don't like the immediate outcome.

Actually, most people that actually *try* using systemd and reads how
it works have no problems with it, and of those there are many (like
me) who actually quite like it.

> Essentially, in his arrogance Lennart only needs to code things the way *he*
> sees as useful or expedient to him and his pay masters.  In doing so he throws
> the *nix way of developing software out of the window and creates a convenient
> for him monolith.  Wherever he can't be bothered to do a neat and versatile
> job he makes his own arguably option-limiting decisions and thus we have
> arrived to today's flavour of systemd-udev-pulseaudio-gnome and whatever else
> he will try to weld in tomorrow.  He found like minds in Sievers et al and
> money from RHL helped them get there.

And he also found like minds in some of the kernel developers, and
some people from OpenSUSE, and Arch, and Debian, and Gentoo, and even
Ubuntu, and old Linux gurus like Keith Packard and Neil Brown[1].

> It ain't pretty and architecturally does not follow the *nix design
> principles, but as Canek says, those who can code better should step up to the
> plate and redesign systemd as it should have been done from the start for the
> benefit of Linux, without making the design compromises that Lennart has
> decided suit him.  I don't know if forking systemd is easy, but no one has so
> far decided to do so.

I don't think forking would attract much developers. Writing something
new trying to follow "the*nix design principles", but being modern and
with the same features (all of them optional, of course) of systemd
will have more chances; although I think it will fail because most of
the people that can code "better" actually like the systemd design,
and would prefer to contribute to it.

And if you found enough of this mythical good-coders, good luck
defining what it means "the*nix design principles".

> Given the title of this thread I fear that those of us who can't code, will
> increasingly find our choices becoming limited, because more and more
> functionality is hacked inextricably into systemd and friends.  It's probably
> too early to call if Gentoo will remain one of the few options in Linux that
> do not use systemd, but decisions taken upstream (for example initrd for
> separate /usr) are affecting some us already.

First of all, Gentoo uses systemd if the user so desires (like I do).

Secondly, no one has proposed (AFAIK) systemd as the default init
system for Gentoo, and I don't think no one will in the short term
future.

And to finish, the fact is that people are using systemd because it
works, the design if good (it can be improved, of course; everything
can), and it has attracted a really large flock of talented developers
around it.

No other option offers any interest for people trying to develop new
cool things and design new standards; the only similar (albeit much
more limited in scope) alternative was Upstart, and I personally don't
think it will be maintained for much longer, except for bugs and
security vulnerabilities; it will have no new features.

In general the people not wanting to use systemd don't even care about
its features; they only want the good old SysV (or OpenRC here in
Gentoo), and that nobody touches their systems.

Since OpenRC is the default in Gentoo, and I don't think that will
change anytime soon, they can have that.

Regards.

[1] http://lwn.net/Articles/584176/
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México