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Hi Alan, |
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Thanks for the reply. |
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|
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Also, up front, I'm thinking that my tone is somehow being |
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misinterpreted. I'm not at all high energy about this. I'm worried now |
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it's not coming across the way I'm feeling about this. Low key. Low |
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stress. Just looking to make things better in the future. Nothing |
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more. I hope folks understand that. If not I apologize as it's hard to |
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convey energy. |
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|
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On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 1:00 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@×××××.com> wrote: |
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> On Saturday 26 April 2008, Mark Knecht wrote: |
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> |
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> > I don't buy that it's my issue created by a long time between |
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> > updates. I could turn on any machine that's sitting in a junk heap or |
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> > back room somewhere. It hasn't been powered up in a long time. I log |
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> > in and want to figure out what's in front of me with respect to |
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> > updates. I type emerge sync and portage deletes files. to me that's |
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> > just wrong. |
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> |
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> Mark, |
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> |
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> This might be worth discussing. I know you said "enough of this" later |
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> on |
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|
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Really only because I don't want to drive people nuts or wear out my |
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welcome. I'm interested in talking about it. Maybe something good will |
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come along one day because of the conversation. |
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|
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> but enough users run into conceptually similar issues to make it |
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> worth while. Examples: someone needs a specific kernel version for some |
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> hardware and it goes away from portage or weird video cards where only |
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> ATIs magic from 2005 actually works. |
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> |
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> First, let's look at the real source of the problem: using rsync to |
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> download the tree. To know what will change or what's new portage needs |
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> a new tree, and there is no summary for that. It really needs two trees |
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> to run a diff against and it has to be done locally - the rsync server |
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> is clueless about what you currently have. So basically to tell you |
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> what will change, portage has to have a new tree which nukes the old |
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> stuff... |
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|
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OK, so rsync itself is where the real magic is that exposes what I |
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consider a weakness? Good info. |
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|
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> |
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> One could write a dual-portage thingy that replicates what you have then |
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> does emerge --sync, and also has an --undo fetaure for just in case. |
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> Ughh. One must take account of the portage db, the metacache and other |
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> bits as well. |
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> |
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> So how about something that creates overlays for you? As a wrapper to |
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> emerge? |
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|
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This is, I think, exactly what I've been suggesting, assuming portage |
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or the wrapper can get in between rsync and my personal data. I |
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consider my copy of portage data 'personal data' but then again I have |
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to take responsibility for using a program that erases my data. Any |
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alternatives to rsync? ;-) (Really, just kidding!) |
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|
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> It could have options to convert various bits of the current |
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> system to private overlays, and generate a decent cache to speed things |
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> up (the current state of affairs will not cache a local overlay by |
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> default so it's really slow). I'm thinking of these things: |
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> |
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> - Install every currently installed ebuild to an overlay, or install |
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> specific ebuilds or specific categories to an overlay. |
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> - Copy an installed ebuild and it's entire installed DEPEND tree to an |
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> overlay - this is for cases where <arb_lib> is not in world but is |
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> required as a deep dependency of something that is. The user will |
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> probably not be aware of this dependency and not having that ebuild |
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> will break stuff. |
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> - Copy an entire profile to an overlay |
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> - Copy everything in an installed ebuild's SRC_URI (or all installed |
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> ebuilds) to a different DISTDIR for safety (think ATI driver downloads |
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> or kernels here) |
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> - Remove old ebuilds and profiles from the overlay that you have since |
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> upgraded |
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> - Possibly more |
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> |
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|
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Yeah, sounds like lots of work, and in my mind probably not worth the |
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effort. I'm thinking of something as conceptually simple (if possible) |
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as |
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|
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emerge --sync-test |
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|
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which instead of actually syncing would just tell me what is going to |
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be added and/or removed from my copy of the portage tree. I could then |
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look look for any overlaps between that data and the output of eix -Ic |
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and move them to my overlay by hand. |
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|
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Maybe the script you are speaking of could look for the overlaps, etc. |
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using eix -Ic itself? Just an idea. |
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|
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Again, the ONLY things I would be interested in saving are things I |
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currently have installed. If it's not installed then it's of no |
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immediate interest to me. |
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|
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> Such a script would do the backup you wished you had done for your |
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> folks, but only the bits you had installed (not everything), then run |
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> emerge. You get a good compromise between you needing old stuff to be |
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> around and the dev's perfectly reasonable desire to not have to support |
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> old stuff not in common use. |
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> |
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> It could be implemented one of these ways: |
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> - a new feature to portage - highly unlikely considering the fear and |
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> dread that comes with modifying portage in it's current state |
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> - a new feature to paludis - this might be possible as I believe |
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> paludis' code design is quite sane |
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> - a wrapper around emerge (easiest and most likely to benefit the |
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> largest numbers if interested users) |
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> |
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|
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It sounds like plaudis might be a place to try to find long term |
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support for an idea like this. I've not used it so I'll check it out. |
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That said you're comments about about it backing up only the little |
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bits I had installed is what seems the most useful to me, and possibly |
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to others also. If that back is a move operation to my obsolete |
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overlay directory then everything still works even though it's no |
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longer in portage. Sounds great. |
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|
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Thanks, |
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Mark |
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-- |
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gentoo-user@l.g.o mailing list |