Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and NetworkManager - gentoo-user

From:	Bruce Hill <daddy@×××××××××××××××××××××.com>
To:	gentoo-user@l.g.o
Subject:	Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and NetworkManager
Date:	Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:49:43
Message-Id:	`20130717124931.GM3387@server`
In Reply to:	Re: [gentoo-user] KDE and NetworkManager by "András Csányi"

1

On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 01:39:36PM +0200, András Csányi wrote:

2

> On 17 July 2013 11:35, Neil Bothwick <neil@××××××××××.uk> wrote:

3

> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:04:12 +0200, András Csányi wrote:

4

> >

5

> >> Ok. How is possible to get the post-install message of an ebuild

6

> >> without re-emerge the package neither opening the log file? The man

7

> >> page of emerge cannot say anything about it.

8

> >

9

> > Read the ebuild.

10

>

11

> I don't think this is a friendly solution in 2013.

12

13

What would _you_ consider friendly? Gentoo is a source based Linux

14

distribution. That means _all_ your software is built from source; however, it

15

is _your_ responsibility to customize this software to make it work best for

16

your computer's hardware, and your software usage. Gentoo is _not_ a binary

17

distribution where every package has been built for the lowest common

18

denominator of computer, so that it works on almost anyone's computer just by

19

clicking the Install button, or some such {easy,friendly} solution.

20

21

If you were to install software on another Linux distribution, for which there

22

was no package prebuilt for that package manager, you would basically:

23

24

download source

25

untar source

26

cd source-directory

27

./configure -help (and read the options)

28

write your own build script with your options

29

make

30

make install

31

(or whatever method for that software and distro)

32

33

You would also be responsible for reading to find out where to install the

34

software, what dependencies it requires, what permissions and groups should be

35

used, etc.

36

37

Gentoo has provided all this for you, but you must learn The Gentoo Way (TM)

38

in order to Make It Work (TM). You seem to be lacking a proper understanding

39

in that area.

40

41

If you installed Gentoo using the Gentoo Handbook (why would you not?), then

42

you should have read: 12. Where to go from here? And there you would read this

43

sentence: You should definitely take a look at the next part of the Gentoo

44

Handbook entitled Working with Gentoo which explains how to keep your software

45

up to date, how to install more software, what USE flags are, how the Gentoo

46

init system works, etc.

47

48

There is a lot of information there, and a lot to learn. But I find that

49

_most_ people _stop_ reading the Handbook at that point, and begin their

50

learning by trial and error. That is acceptable, even friendly, but it might

51

take you _much_longer_ to get that information than simply reading the book.

52

53

If you hang out in #gentoo on FreeNode you will be able to learn a _lot_ of

54

what you read on this mailing list in a much shorter time. In fact, you can

55

log the channel, and use that as another option to _search_ for support

56

answers. Often I will issue:

57

grep wicd irclogs/#gentoo.log

58

and maybe:

59

grep postinst irclogs/#gentoo.log

60

to find some answers. Then maybe that search will lead me to issue:

61

awk '/iamben/ && /postinst/ { print }' irclogs/#gentoo.log

62

because my previous search revealed that iamben gave a lot of answers

63

concerning postinst and people got their question answered.

64

65

Last but not least, there are search engines, such as Google. Just open your

66

web browser to http://wwww.google.com and type "post-install message of an

67

ebuild" and see if any of the results answers your question. The first hit for

68

me was "Gentoo Development Guide: Messages", which for me was simple and easy

69

to read, but might not be so for you if you have no experience reading/writing

70

ebuilds. The second hit was "Gentoo Forums :: View topic - How to read emerge

71

messages? (I ..." which gave 'friendly' answers to your question. (Which you

72

already got on this list, also.)

73

74

Gentoo is not considered a "user friendly" distro in 2013 by many people. The

75

primary reason is that _most_ people have been trained to "point and click"

76

but never _read_ anything. Those are the people for whom Mark Shuttleworth

77

designed Ubuntu Linux.

78

79

Gentoo wasn't designed for the "point and click" crowd. Read

80

http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml to get a better idea of Gentoo's

81

intended audience.

82

83

Cheers,

84

Bruce

85

--

86

Happy Penguin Computers               >')

87

126 Fenco Drive                       ( \

88

Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^

89

support@×××××××××××××××××××××.com

90

662-269-2706 662-205-6424

91

http://happypenguincomputers.com/

92

93

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.                                                                                                                                                          

94

Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?                                                                                                                                                                                        

95

A: Top-posting.                                                                                                                                                                                                                

96

Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

97

98

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Gentoo Archives: gentoo-user

Replies

1	On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 01:39:36PM +0200, András Csányi wrote:
2	> On 17 July 2013 11:35, Neil Bothwick <neil@××××××××××.uk> wrote:
3	> > On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 10:04:12 +0200, András Csányi wrote:
4	> >
5	> >> Ok. How is possible to get the post-install message of an ebuild
6	> >> without re-emerge the package neither opening the log file? The man
7	> >> page of emerge cannot say anything about it.
8	> >
9	> > Read the ebuild.
10	>
11	> I don't think this is a friendly solution in 2013.
12
13	What would _you_ consider friendly? Gentoo is a source based Linux
14	distribution. That means _all_ your software is built from source; however, it
15	is _your_ responsibility to customize this software to make it work best for
16	your computer's hardware, and your software usage. Gentoo is _not_ a binary
17	distribution where every package has been built for the lowest common
18	denominator of computer, so that it works on almost anyone's computer just by
19	clicking the Install button, or some such {easy,friendly} solution.
20
21	If you were to install software on another Linux distribution, for which there
22	was no package prebuilt for that package manager, you would basically:
23
24	download source
25	untar source
26	cd source-directory
27	./configure -help (and read the options)
28	write your own build script with your options
29	make
30	make install
31	(or whatever method for that software and distro)
32
33	You would also be responsible for reading to find out where to install the
34	software, what dependencies it requires, what permissions and groups should be
35	used, etc.
36
37	Gentoo has provided all this for you, but you must learn The Gentoo Way (TM)
38	in order to Make It Work (TM). You seem to be lacking a proper understanding
39	in that area.
40
41	If you installed Gentoo using the Gentoo Handbook (why would you not?), then
42	you should have read: 12. Where to go from here? And there you would read this
43	sentence: You should definitely take a look at the next part of the Gentoo
44	Handbook entitled Working with Gentoo which explains how to keep your software
45	up to date, how to install more software, what USE flags are, how the Gentoo
46	init system works, etc.
47
48	There is a lot of information there, and a lot to learn. But I find that
49	_most_ people _stop_ reading the Handbook at that point, and begin their
50	learning by trial and error. That is acceptable, even friendly, but it might
51	take you _much_longer_ to get that information than simply reading the book.
52
53	If you hang out in #gentoo on FreeNode you will be able to learn a _lot_ of
54	what you read on this mailing list in a much shorter time. In fact, you can
55	log the channel, and use that as another option to _search_ for support
56	answers. Often I will issue:
57	grep wicd irclogs/#gentoo.log
58	and maybe:
59	grep postinst irclogs/#gentoo.log
60	to find some answers. Then maybe that search will lead me to issue:
61	awk '/iamben/ && /postinst/ { print }' irclogs/#gentoo.log
62	because my previous search revealed that iamben gave a lot of answers
63	concerning postinst and people got their question answered.
64
65	Last but not least, there are search engines, such as Google. Just open your
66	web browser to http://wwww.google.com and type "post-install message of an
67	ebuild" and see if any of the results answers your question. The first hit for
68	me was "Gentoo Development Guide: Messages", which for me was simple and easy
69	to read, but might not be so for you if you have no experience reading/writing
70	ebuilds. The second hit was "Gentoo Forums :: View topic - How to read emerge
71	messages? (I ..." which gave 'friendly' answers to your question. (Which you
72	already got on this list, also.)
73
74	Gentoo is not considered a "user friendly" distro in 2013 by many people. The
75	primary reason is that _most_ people have been trained to "point and click"
76	but never _read_ anything. Those are the people for whom Mark Shuttleworth
77	designed Ubuntu Linux.
78
79	Gentoo wasn't designed for the "point and click" crowd. Read
80	http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/about.xml to get a better idea of Gentoo's
81	intended audience.
82
83	Cheers,
84	Bruce
85	--
86	Happy Penguin Computers >')
87	126 Fenco Drive ( \
88	Tupelo, MS 38801 ^^
89	support@×××××××××××××××××××××.com
90	662-269-2706 662-205-6424
91	http://happypenguincomputers.com/
92
93	A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
94	Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
95	A: Top-posting.
96	Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
97
98	Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting