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On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 04:50:43PM +0800, Mark David Dumlao wrote: |
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> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@×××××.com> wrote: |
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> > And you are vastly overstating the desirability of having pulseaudio |
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> > enforced on users without very good cause |
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> How much barefaced lying can you do in one sentence? |
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> 1) it's not enforced _on you_. USE=-pulse |
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|
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Not enforced on Gentoo, no, which is why many of us use it. But we're discussing |
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pulseaudio in the wider ecosystem (you certainly are) which does affect us too. |
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|
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> 2) bluetooth headset goes in, audio goes out is good cause. |
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|
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Yeah and if you need it all power to you: look you can install it real simply |
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or it comes by default on some distros. What about the rest of us who either |
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don't give a damn about audio beyond the speakers on our computer, with hifi |
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TV et al separate, or are actually into quality audio, and use jack? |
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|
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See: you cannot predict the use-cases. By definition, you will not be present |
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when the software is run by the end-user. So you have to learn humility, and |
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let the user decide. Hence what was said before about software not imposing |
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itself, especially when not in even use. |
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|
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One True Way inturgrated idiot-box crap doesn't allow that. It's the antithesis |
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of Unix. And if you can't deal with the fact that Linux is a *nix, use something |
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else instead of imposing layers of crap on the rest of us. Especially your dud |
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spangly new ideas that are turds you want the rest of us to polish while you |
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sell your "enterprise" distro based on everyone else's work. It's poisoning |
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the software ecosystem. |
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|
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> > and seem to have |
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> > underestimated how deep that rabbit hole goes. |
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> No I haven't. I have no idea how deep the complexity of pulseaudio is |
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> because I don't know how to use it. I don't know how to use it because |
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> it just works. |
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<snip> |
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> But if I compare |
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> how well I learned to use grub vs pulseaudio, two things that I use |
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> everyday, it's clear that one of them was more successful in hiding |
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> the complexity from me before I used it successfully. HINT: it wasn't |
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> grub. |
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|
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Funny, I spent even less time learning to use the KDE artsd and it worked |
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too. I never had any problems with it at all, yet I've heard of a lot |
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of issues with pa, more worryingly to do with the mentality the "developer" |
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imposes as a condition of working with him. I still got rid of it, and am |
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much happier with my current, Lennartware-free, setup thanks. |
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|
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Must be something about "what programs actually do, rather than just" |
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misleading analogies and invalid comparisons. |
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|
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> If you actually talk like it matters what the programs do, rather than |
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> just making airy abstractions on what some ideal fetishized system |
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> should be like, you'll understand things better. |
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> |
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> > "It does no harm and might be useful for some" is simply not a valid |
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> > reason to enforce a package on all users, especially when said package |
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> > is the latest johnny-come-lately from a wunderkind with a proven |
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> > reputation for writing invasive code[1] |
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> Oh dear. I should've realized what this was really about. There aren't |
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> really any technical reasons behind this, are there? Just some good |
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> old fashioned Lennart hate boners. |
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> |
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> I have a perfect halloween campfire story for this group. The one |
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> where a malicious udev update gives a backdoor for He Who Must Not Be |
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> Named to install his LennartWare onto yor systems... |
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|
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Newsflash: it's called "systemd" and you can't get udev without it. |
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Nor can you build udev separately, you must install all the requirements |
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and build the full systemd package: they deliberately broke that. Even |
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though systemd has nothing to do with udev: it's a complete layering |
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violation. |
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|
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They have nfc about what "not breaking userspace" means. They tried to |
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push binary logfiles in the kernel; they broke module-loading and blamed |
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it on everyone else; and they designed a system with a race builtin, despite |
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claiming loud and wide that they are the "experts in the dynamic early |
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userspace domain". Oh and let's not forget the wonderful decision to use |
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XML in system space, plus the current nonsense about hw bus-ids being stable. |
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|
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But sure, these amateurs are just who we want writing system-critical |
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code.. |
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|
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Smart businesses won't be so dumb. Nor will smart users. Good luck to the |
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rest of you, you have my sympathy: I see your pain on IRC every day. |
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-- |
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#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-) |