Gentoo Archives: gentoo-user

From: Philip Webb <purslow@××××××××.net>
To: gentoo-user@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] And so the emerge spake: Let there be conflicts...and see, everything was chaos and sin...
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2015 21:28:57
Message-Id: 20150426212847.GF1067@ca.inter.net
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-user] And so the emerge spake: Let there be conflicts...and see, everything was chaos and sin... by Michael Orlitzky
1 150426 Michael Orlitzky wrote:
2 > On 04/26/2015 03:17 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
3 >> Portage needs to tell users (1) more clearly what's gone wrong,
4 >> (2) what their choices are, (3) how to resolve the problem.
5 > The process goes something like this:
6 > 1. Become frustrated with the obtuse portage output.
7 > 2. Get familiar with the portage source code.
8 > 3. Develop an understanding of the dependency resolution process
9 > and all of the possible conflicts that can arise.
10 > 4. Come up with better ways to explain the error messages that are shown.
11 > 5. Never get around to writing the patch,
12 > because now you understand what Portage is telling you.
13
14 That's far too much to expect of users : we're not dev's.
15
16 > More seriously, once you start working on (3), you'll realize
17 > that just because the error msgs suck doesn't mean you can make them better.
18
19 If they "suck", they're not worth issuing, are they ?
20 I'm not willing to become a dev, so I'll never know if I cd improve them,
21 but it doesn't follow that no-one else could.
22
23 > Maybe the best solution to a conflict is to buy a new video card for $5,
24 > so that a newer version of nvidia-drivers will work,
25 > so that the new version of xorg-server will work,
26 > so that the new version of opengl will work,
27 > so that you can upgrade tuxracer.
28 > Portage can't figure out stuff like that.
29
30 I'm not asking it to : citing extreme cases is a popular excuse for inaction.
31
32 > If you're willing to wait an hour, it might be able to come up
33 > with a list of ways you could resolve a conflict, but basically
34 > all of them will be wrong, eg suggestion #1, uninstall everything.
35
36 Really, this is a flippant response to a serious issue,
37 which is being raised more often on the Gentoo User list.
38
39 > All portage errors are essentially :
40 > "you want something and you can't have it".
41
42 Well, you said above that Portage doesn't know what the user wants (smile).
43
44 > The solution is then to adjust slightly what it is that you asked for,
45 > but Portage doesn't know what you really want
46 > or what you're willing to settle for,
47 > so the best it can do is give you the information you need
48 > so that you can ask it a different question.
49
50 Users need advice from Portage re the range + type of questions to ask.
51 Portage needs to list possibilities + alternatives, ok a short list.
52 At present, it spews out opaque lists of things it can't do
53 & offers no assistance to users re what it mb able to do.
54
55 --
56 ========================,,============================================
57 SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
58 ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
59 TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

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