Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Threads changing Was: OT: website design

[Mick]

On Sunday 05 Jun 2011 16:48:19 David W Noon wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:00:01 +0200, Mick wrote about [gentoo-user] Re:
>
> Threads changing  Was: OT: website design:
> >David W Noon wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >> I hope all is clear now.
> >
> >... as mud!
> >
> >This reply of yours (unlike your previous) is shown as a new thread in
> >Knode, not as a threaded reply to Dale's message.  :@
> >
> >PS. I'm responding using Knode and news.gmane.org as an NNTP server,
> >to see what difference this may make.
>
> Well, here are some interesting header lines from my message to which
> you are replying:
>
> Message-ID: <h07vY-7fk-13@×××××××××××××.it>
>
> References: <gZYsG-h5-21@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-15@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-17@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-19@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-21@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-23@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-25@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-27@×××××××××××××.it> <gZYsG-h5-23@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-29@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-31@×××××××××××××.it>
>
> X-Original-Message-ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@××××××.local>
>
> X-Original-References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-3@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-5@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-7@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-9@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-11@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-13@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rs-2L8-15@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<gZXPY-7QA-23@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h04Rr-2L8-1@×××××××××××××.it>
> 	<h05ku-3FK-7@×××××××××××××.it>
>
> The X-Original-Message-ID: line is a rewrite of the original Message-ID:
> line Claws-Mail assigned when I wrote the message.  The Message-ID:
> line is the replacement generated by the bofh.it list server.  These
> both look quite kosher.

I am getting a headache!  O_O

This is what Knode is showing as header references in your message that I 
thereafter responded using Knode and news.gmane.org:

Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: David W Noon <dwnoon@××××××××.com>
Newsgroups: gmane.linux.gentoo.user
Subject: Re: Threads changing  Was: OT: website design
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 23:22:00 +0100
Organization: Luton Operatic Society
Lines: 64
Approved: news@×××××.org
Message-ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@××××××.local>  [1]
References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-3@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-5@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-7@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-9@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-11@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-13@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rs-2L8-15@×××××××××××××.it>
	<gZXPY-7QA-23@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h04Rr-2L8-1@×××××××××××××.it>
	<h05ku-3FK-7@×××××××××××××.it>
Reply-To: gentoo-user@l.g.o
NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1;

[1] As you can see the Message ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@××××××.local> 
shown on Usenet is different to the Message-ID: <h07vY-7fk-13@gated-
at.bofh.it> which you mention above, but the same with your X-Original-
Message-ID: <20110604232200.36c03637@××××××.local>.

The Usenet headers do not show any X-Original-References: in your message, at 
least not in my Knode.

The email headers also do not show any X-Original-References: at least in my 
Kmail.  :(


> Now, when we look at the References: and X-Original-References: lines,
> we see that the list server has rewritten the message id's of all the
> messages referred to earlier in the thread.  I find this a little
> strange, as it seems that the message id's sent to Usenet differ from
> the ones sent via email.

I'm not entirely sure that this rewriting is a list server action and wonder 
if it has something to do with your fetchmail setup ...


> If we now look at the innards of your message, the one to which I am
> currently replying, we see this:
>
> References: <gZYsG-h5-21@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-15@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-17@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-19@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-21@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-23@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-25@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-27@×××××××××××××.it> <gZYsG-h5-23@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-29@×××××××××××××.it> <h07vY-7fk-31@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h07vY-7fk-13@×××××××××××××.it>
>
> X-Original-References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-3@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-5@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-7@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-9@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-11@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-13@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h04Rs-2L8-15@×××××××××××××.it> <gZXPY-7QA-23@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <h04Rr-2L8-1@×××××××××××××.it> <h05ku-3FK-7@×××××××××××××.it>
>  <20110604232200.36c03637@××××××.local>
>
> The last message id in your X-Original-References: line has used my
> original message id, not the one from the Message-ID: line generated by
> the Gentoo list server.  This should not cause problems, as the better
> mail and news readers should only use In-Reply-To: and References:
> header lines for the initial threading.
>
> I should point out that I always post by SMTP to
> gentoo-user@l.g.o, and never through an NNTP server (not
> even my own).  This means that you should not see my original
> Message-ID: line, except after it has been rewritten and replaced by
> the list server.

My Knode reply was via news.gmane.org, but all my other messages (inc. this) 
is to gentoo-user@l.g.o.

> So, why is KNode using my original message id for its References: line?
>
> Could you please look at the Message-ID: and X-Original-Message-ID:
> lines in my previous message and compare them to those I posted above?

I've done that as I'm showing above.  I've also compared the email and news 
message headers of my previous response through Knode:

Email headers:
Message-ID: <ised0l$m87$1@×××××××××××.org>
References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-3@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-5@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-7@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-9@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-11@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-13@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-15@×××××××××××××.it> 
<gZXPY-7QA-23@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rr-2L8-1@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h05ku-3FK-7@×××××××××××××.it> <20110604232200.36c03637@××××××.local>

and News headers:

Message-ID: <ised0l$m87$1@×××××××××××.org>
References: <gZXPY-7QA-21@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-3@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-5@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-7@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-9@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-11@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h04Rs-2L8-13@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rs-2L8-15@×××××××××××××.it> 
<gZXPY-7QA-23@×××××××××××××.it> <h04Rr-2L8-1@×××××××××××××.it> 
<h05ku-3FK-7@×××××××××××××.it> <20110604232200.36c03637@××××××.local>

Hope this helps somehow ...
-- 
Regards,
Mick