Re: [gentoo-user] Re: anti-portage wreckage?

[Mike Myers]

On 12/31/06, Mick <michaelkintzios@×××××.com> wrote:
>
> On Sunday 31 December 2006 12:18, Aniruddha wrote:
> > Very good ideas in this thread. Why not open a thread in the Gentoo
> > forums and start a public discussion there?
> >
> >
> > In regard to your question, have you thought about the --oneshot option?
>
> > That way you can manually upgrade the packages you see fit.
> >
> > James wrote:
> > > Mike Myers <fluffymikey <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > >> I think I like your idea better, about distributing binaries.  Do you
>
> > >> know if
> > >
> > > something like this is being worked on?  I'm certain that a common
> method
> > > to this, like what you're saying, would allow Gentoo to become
> scalable
> > > to the point of being easily usable on a large scale.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's a lot of work. I'll be pusing binaries to lots of systems, but,
> it
> > > going to take me months to get ready. I was hoping others with similar
>
> > > goals would 'band together' to come up with a solution that combines
> the
> > > needs for the casual user as well as those of us that  want to manage
> > > dozens to hundres of Gentoo systems.....
> > >
> > > I need to refine the idea, and my goal is mostly embedded gentoo
> sytems,
> > > but, they are very similar to gentoo-servers. Expanding the idea to
> > > workstation, at least for core  software, is not that difficult.
> > >
> > > I do not intend to get into 'competiion' with the devs, particularly
> on
> > > applications that are big, complex, or prone to breakage (OO)....
> > >
> > >
> > > It'd really be better to do this as a group, but, I've found little
> > > interest, most probably due to the fact that most folks are already
> > > bogged down with their own ambitions.
>
> Last few unstructured [OT] thoughts for the year . . .
>
> There's been a couple of threads on Gentoo going out of fashion, the Linux
>
> desktop failing to dethrone M$Windoze, etc.  I think that this particular
> thread is interesting from another perspective, too.  Not fighting past
> battles (which distro should/could/would dominate the server market and
> which
> the desktop market), but fighting potential future battles.  If you're
> interested, read on.
>
> The PC centric desktop on which M$ built their business model may be under
> threat.  If the WebOS [1], GoogleOS [2], internet based desktop [3], etc.
> take off, then what will enable Gentoo to become a predominant system of
> choice both in the server and in the thin client markets?  I don't think
> that
> Redmond will have much of a problem packaging a ROM embedded version of a
> thin client system and pushing it to all the Joe-public out there, who
> currently (mostly) blindly buy their products.  Inertia may of course lead
> to
> their demise if they continue to market the individual desktop PC
> solution,
> but I wouldn't count on it.


I'm sure others will disagree, but I really think if Gentoo is going to
become a cornerstone in the desktop's replacement (like for thin clients)
then there should probably be an option for a binary 'version' of portage.
Gentoo is great in so many ways, but having to compile everything is
sometimes just very unnecessary.  I mean it's great if you want to teak your
desktop, but it's just time consuming on a server or a slower embedded
machine, and worst of all there's no benefit for compiling things in those
areas.  The other problem thing that will hold it back, I believe anyway, is
the constant updating instead of release cycles.  This can make
administration very harsh on a system that you can only access remotely.

I am fully aware that there are "solutions" to both of these problems, but
none of those solutions are standardized at all and are also not supported
by Gentoo's devs.  Like, there's no 'Gentoo' way of doing such things.
Perhaps if there were, then Gentoo would be a more realistic approach to
networked computing.


The question then is what should Gentoo do to establish itself as a major
> enabler and shaper in such a potential future?  What are the market
> segments
> and sub-segments and how do they come together (a home PC is these days a
> desktop apps suite; a games machine; a media center with CD/DVD/TV/music
> playing and recording capabilities, etc.)  Device and information
> convergence
> is increasing.
>
> Some people will undoubtedly run their own home servers with their chosen
> desktop apps and access them via FreeNX & VNC.  For them Gentoo will be an
>
> option to consider.  However, I think that the vast majority will not own
> or
> configure their own remote access desktops.  They will readily subscribe
> to
> the latest M$ shop offering along with their free Hotmail account.  How
> could
> Gentoo increase its market share if such a potential future is to occur,
> or
> even better: how could Gentoo Foundation become pivotal in making it
> happen
> while retaining its values.


As far as typical home users go, they don't really buy into things unless
it's easy to use.  Mainly because they are wanting a tool to accomplish a
task.  If Gentoo can provide that tool, then getting it into the living room
wouldn't be a big deal.  As it is now, unfortunately, Gentoo is not designed
to be 'easy to use' in the sense of the average user's experience.  Once it
is, then it will be easier to market.  I like the ability to tinker with
Gentoo, but I just wish it wasn't a requirement to use it.


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_operating_system
> [2] http://www.kottke.org/05/08/googleos-webos but there's many more
> articles
> & blogs out there; e.g.
> [3] http://blogs.zdnet.com/web2explorer/?p=166
>
> Happy New Year to All!
> --
> Regards,
> Mick
>
>
>