RE: [gentoo-amd64] Re: How To Play WMV (thread drift - slaveryware)

[Antoine Martin]

I am sure you've got the best of intentions, but as far as I know:
* people are free to choose their vocabulary as they see fit on
gentoo-amd64. Especially when they are generally as helpful as Duncan ;)
* this is not the first time (and certainly not the last) that Duncan
and many others use those terms. In fact this is not the first time this
has degenerated into a discussion about those terms.
* Gentoo is free software and R.Stallman is the undisputed father of
free software, if you disagree with the terms that he uses regularly
himself, why not take it to a FSF list or another discussion forum.
This has *nothing* to do with amd64 specifically.
* I can understand why some people would feel these words are a tad
strong to describe software, but as I am forced to use "slaveryware"
everyday to drive my large lcd in 3D (no way around it): I still find it
a major PITA whenever it breaks (which is often) and so it does feel
like slavery. There you go, I said it.

Now can we all behave like adults and drop the long winded thread.
And in the future if anyone re-starts a thread like this one, can we
just point them to this thread (or the previous one) rather than
re-hashing the whole discussion everytime.
Let's agree to disagree and leave it there.

Regards
Antoine

On Thu, 2006-09-28 at 19:34 -0700, Bob Young wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: news [mailto:news@×××××××××.org]On Behalf Of Duncan
> > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:17 PM
> > To: gentoo-amd64@l.g.o
> > Subject: [gentoo-amd64] Re: How To Play WMV (thread drift - slaveryware)
> >
> >
> > "Bob Young" <BYoung@××××××××××.com> posted
> > FAEEIJPAOFEMBBLKPMJEMEHFHKAA.BYoung@××××××××××.com, excerpted below, on
> > Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:43:12 -0700:
> >
> > >> > I fail to see that it really makes much of a difference whether Jane
> > >> > Avgusr is dependent on a Linux kernel developer or on an engineer
> > >> > working at nVidia.
> > >>
> > >> Because *no one* is dependent on the linux kernel developers. You can
> > >> make the needed changes.  If you don't have the ability to,
> > >
> > > As is the case for 99.99 percent of the population.
> >
> > That may be, but 99.99 percent of the population isn't me.
>
> True, but discussions regarding moral, ethical, or general policy questions, should have a broader base and application than my personal and specific opinion and viewpoint.
>
> > As I said in a different reply, "slaveryware" vs. "freedomware" is simply
> > the point in my experience I've come to.  I don't expect others to have
> > come to the same point, or necessarily find my terms represent their
> > experience.  All I'm doing is fairly representing my own experience,
> > calling things exactly as I see them, unvarnished with "political
> > correctness".
>
> I don't care about political correctness, I care about reality, and in the real world, words have meaning, they don't just mean what each of us chooses for them personally. Just because you personally perceive CSS as slaveryware doesn't mean that such a term is justified by the actual reality of the situation.
>
> I consider it somewhat of a copout, and just a bit disingenuous, to justify use of inflammatory terms with the "it's just my viewpoint" defense. I could justify my use of the word whore when referring to women by saying I don't mean it as derogatory. I could say that I'm not using it as a slur, and that I perceive it as just a general term. I could say no one else should take it as meaning otherwise when I use it, however that doesn't change the meaning one bit, nor does it change what people hear when I use the word, nor should it. The same argument could, and has, been used for nigger, faggot, Nazi, and a whole host of other inflammatory words.
>
> Just saying that you're in a "different place in your journey" doesn't change the meaning of words, nor how accurately (or NOT) they describe the reality of the situation.
>
> > >> the skills* (or use your own time) to improve the software.  Clearly,
> > >> you have more options (and are thus more free) with free software.
> > >
> > > If I'm not doing it myself, I see little difference whether I pay one
> > > entity, or pay another.
> >
> > new drug to save your life or that of a loved one, or buying food and/or
> > paying rent.  The fact of the matter is, many suppliers gives you vastly
> > more freedom/flexibility than a single supplier, and with that
> > freedom/flexibility not coincidentally comes a rather drastic drop in
> > cost, yet the suppliers still seem to stay n business.
>
> Back to software, while having open source does indeed give slightly more "choice" in a technical/theoretical sense, in reality, this additional choice is *never* exercised by the vast majority of users. If a "freedom" is never exercised by 99.99 percent of users who have it, do you actually think that in any realistic way the users who don't have the choice are in any real sense "enslaved?"
>
> --
> Regards
> Bob Young

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