Re: [gentoo-amd64] First Impressions

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Thursday 28 September 2006 15:17, Barry.SCHWARTZ@×××××××××××××.org wrote 
about 'Re: [gentoo-amd64] First Impressions':
> "Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." <bss03@××××××××××.net> skribis:
> > On Thursday 28 September 2006 14:16, Barry.SCHWARTZ@×××××××××××××.org
> > wrote
> >
> > about 'Re: [gentoo-amd64] First Impressions':
> > > "Boyd Stephen Smith Jr." <bss03@××××××××××.net> skribis:
> > > > It's wrong-headed to deride or discourage users for using the
> > > > features of their compiler when those functions are not erroneous.
> > > >  Instead, you should be leaning on the developers to fix the
> > > > erroneous code.
> > > This looks like a false dichotomy to me.
> > A piece of code it either conforms to a C/C++ standard
> > the compiler implements or not.
> Not that dichotomy, but the one that says it is wrongheaded to
> discourage users (who may have no interest in encountering or fixing
> bugs) from doing things that expose bugs, because developers should be
> bothered to fix their code. You can do both.

Ooooh, sorry, yeah.  That's true.  Although, rather than saying "don't 
use -O3" to the user, I think it's better just to replace -O3 with -O2 in 
the ebuild until upstream fixes things.  I just don't think the user 
should ever feel breakage is their "fault" because they used advertised 
features of their compiler and headed the associated warnings.

Now, I have to problem with developers closing some bug opened by a ricer 
out there that's added -ffast-math to their CFLAGS as WONTFIX/INVALID 
since it's not really a problem.  All the parts provided by Gentoo 
(ebuild, source, compiler, portage, etc.) all behaving properly.  It's 
just that, just like the warning says, programs WILL break 
under -ffast-math.

> Indeed, there aren’t many fields of ‘production’ in which end users
> ought to be encouraged to try things that expose flaws in design or
> manufacture.

I disagree.  I want to know about those flaws, and I want the manufactures 
to fix them -- which is why I like Consumer Reports so much. :)

I encourage people to test the tensile strength of their Windows CDs and 
let me know at what point they break.  I'll collect and publish 
statistics. ;)

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh