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Beso <givemesugarr@×××××.com> posted |
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d257c3560805301217q5af4d9c3rc3ea014a012fe04f@××××××××××.com, excerpted |
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below, on Fri, 30 May 2008 19:17:59 +0000: |
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|
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> 2008/5/30 Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@×××.net>: |
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|
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>> Do the KDE-live builds require paludis? I recall reading that they |
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>> were headed that way, because it could support an EAPI with needed |
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>> features while portage couldn't yet. Those builds were live only and |
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>> were to stay in the overlay since packages in the main tree must |
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>> support portage. |
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|
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> the kde svn overlay yes, but from what i've read there's a new overlay |
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> which includes the 4.0.80 version (the 4.1 beta) which is usable with |
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> portage. the other overlay is the real development trunk so there quite |
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> a huge movement in it. |
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|
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OK, thanks. I wasn't aware of the other overlay, so that's news to me. |
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The split does make sense, however, given that something semi-stable will |
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eventually need to find its way to the tree, and by definition, the tree |
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version would need to work with portage. |
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|
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> also it doesn't really make sense to use binpkg |
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> for a svn or git ebuild that continues to change. it would mean a real |
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> huge amount of hd space. |
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|
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I did it for awhile and didn't find space to be anything like an issue. |
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Of course, "huge" would be relative to today's even "huger" disks, which |
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could be considered the reason I didn't find it an issue. |
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|
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As currently auto-handled, you have a bit of a point in that binpkgs |
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don't make a lot of sense in the live-vcs environment, since it's the |
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same "version" changed and remerged, thus overwriting the binpkg. With |
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normal versioning that's of course not an issue, since the versions |
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change, so the binpkg filenames change and are not overwritten. Thus |
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it's possible to use the previous binpkgs to rollback to previous |
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versions, or for reference, to peak inside them and see how say a config |
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file changed between versions. That's exactly the sorts of things I do |
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with binpkgs, and you are correct, an overwritten binpkg isn't much help |
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in that regard. |
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|
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However, before I decided I was a bit too early in following the KDE4 |
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process for my needs and thus gave it up for the time being, I had |
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decided to create a script that would have gathered up all the KDE4 |
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tarballs and saved them off to a dated subdir somewhere so they wouldn't |
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have been overwritten each time I updated. I could have then used |
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logrotate or cron to setup a scheduled thinning down of the backups |
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(keeping say the three last rollback versions, then one from each week |
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for a month, addressing the accumulating space issue). That would have |
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effectively given me date-versioned fallbacks, thus filling the purpose |
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binpkgs normally fill for me. |
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|
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The reason I wasn't doing it before is that while I had had a chance to |
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get the builds merging successfully and was in general keeping up with |
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that (thanks to a nicely powerful machine), until then I hadn't really |
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had a good chance to actually test it operationally. Thus, if there were |
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any regressions, I'd have (1) likely not even known it, and (2) wasn't |
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actually depending on anything anyway. I realized, however, that if I |
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were to find it workable and try to start using it, since it was live-SVN |
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I was running, I'd need a way to revert if something broke. (Actually, |
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there /was/ some big breakage at a few points, from what I read, as they |
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merged some stuff before the other stuff needed to regain the former |
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functionality. So the case for keeping rollbacks around was a very good |
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one!). Thus the scripts I intended to write, to give me binary rollback |
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capabilities even in the case of live version builds that would |
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ordinarily overwrite each other. |
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|
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As it happened, once I had a chance to actually test it, enough |
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functionality I depended on was still missing, that I scrapped the entire |
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testing process... which was all good anyway, since a couple weeks later |
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was when the discussion on the dev list about them now requiring paludis |
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took place. |
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|
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> this tree instead is the official 4.1 branch |
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> and should have some sort of borders in which development would stay. |
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|
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Makes sense and follows the plan they were in the process of developing |
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when I split, tho I didn't know about the paludis angle at that time. |
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|
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>> But I guess it hasn't been a priority (sort of like proxy support in |
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>> KDE4, from what I read). <shrug> If it works for them... but it's |
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>> not going to work for me without it. |
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>> |
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>> |
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> proxy support is working very well in kde4 (i'm actually using it |
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> without any issues). the problem is konqueror that isn't much compatible |
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> with sites designed for firefox and it isn't yet able to play well with |
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> flash. the binpkg in paludis isn't present as far as i know. |
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|
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?? |
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|
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The flash and etc. stuff isn't a big deal, certainly for those used to |
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dealing with KDE3 konqueror where the slaveryware Adobe Flash plugin |
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might have worked, but where I never /did/ get either gnash or swfdec- |
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mozilla working, tho they worked in IceWeasel. |
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|
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Actually, for flash (read youtube since that's about all the flash I care |
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about), I used iceweasel/firefox with swfdec for awhile, but couldn't |
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keep it working reliably, apparently due to dependency merge order issues |
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such that it worked if things had been upgraded in the right order, but |
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failed as soon as an update came to one of the several, that killed the |
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order again. Then I used iceweasel with a download plugin to download |
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the *.flv and played it in kaffeine, better player environment anyway, |
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but it was a hassle downloading, playing, and deleting all those files |
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manually. I scrapped swfdec and depends, tho, since I never did figure |
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out what magic order they needed to be merged in to reliably work. |
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|
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Just recently, I found and merged the kde-misc/youtube-servicemenu |
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package. This is what I had been looking for, as it allowed me to |
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download youtube videos from konqueror, even without a working plugin to |
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view them in konqueror. It integrated with the desktop better too |
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(unsurprising, being KDE), so manually dealing with all those downloaded |
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and mostly played and deleted files was much easier. I continue to |
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actually play them in kaffeine, which works much better than trying to |
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play them in a tiny segment of the browser window did back on iceweasel |
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even when it did work. |
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|
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So, hoping/assuming the same youtube-servicemenu package will continue to |
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work or they will update it and that'll work, I don't anticipate a whole |
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lot of problems there. (It shouldn't be a major problem, and even if the |
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service menu mechanism is changed a bit, I expect I could do the |
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necessary fixes here if needed, since it's basically just a MIME-type |
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association and a couple scripts.) |
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|
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However, the proxy stuff I'm now confused on, as you say it works, but |
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the comments on the KDE 4.1 beta announcement on the dot say otherwise, |
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several people agreed, and nobody, last I checked, corrected them saying |
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it worked. |
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|
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http://dot.kde.org/1211898836/ |
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|
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Now that I look again, there's a mention of a patch, with a comment that |
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it fixes socks5 but breaks std http proxy. So maybe it's only socks- |
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proxy support that was broken (apparently in 4.0 as well) and that is |
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what all the complaints have been about, but std http-proxy support has |
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worked. If so, that's /some/ better than I had though. I think the |
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privoxy I use here as a personal ad-busting junk-rewriting proxy is std |
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http, for instance, so it shouldn't be an issue here. However, it's |
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apparently a blocker for many, those who'd be using it on desktops |
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connected thru a socks proxy at work, that they have no control over and |
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no choice of direct route to the Internet, for instance. It's still a |
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pretty basic feature. |
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|
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Not to sound too whiny (probably too late =8^( ), but it also appears |
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that while multiple panels and panel configs are now working (that was |
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the blocker for me earlier, post 4.0 on the 4.1 trunk but still early in |
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it, I tried desktop applets instead but the functionality I needed just |
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wasn't there, and couldn't be made to be there), panel-autohide isn't, in |
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the beta. It's apparently still on the 4.1 list, even tho feature freeze |
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has hit, so maybe there's hope if it was mostly implemented and it's a |
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bug they can fix to get it working again. I don't use it a lot on my KDE |
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3.5.9 desktop; at dual 1600x1200 stacked for 1600x2400, I don't need it |
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as much as say 1024x768 folks would, but I do use it for a (600x300) |
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popout panel containing a kpager applet. Since IIRC KDE4 has an applet |
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that can be put on the desktop for that, there's a decent chance I won't |
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miss it a lot once I get a suitably customized arrangement going, but |
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it'd be nice to have the option. |
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|
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In any case, 4.1 appears to have fixed at least some of the 4.0 blockers, |
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including the big one here, the lack of multipanel support and |
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configuration, so unless there's something really stupid like that |
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missing proxy support (tho it looks like it'll work for me after all), |
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there's at least a decent chance I'll find it at least minimally usable, |
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now, enough to remerge it and start the task of customizing it to my |
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needs and switching my habits to the 4.x methodology, even if I have to |
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keep parts of KDE3 around for awhile. That's what I had intended to do |
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with 4.0, but it was just too *broken*, too many now vital but missing in |
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4.0 features, to make it work, even for this normally out-in-front |
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bleeding edge guy who /loves/ many betas. That's why I say 4.0 was only |
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early tech-preview alpha, not even beta, because betas normally have the |
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features all there or at least blocked out even if buggy, and 4.0... |
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didn't! So 4.1's the first real beta, if it even reaches that. It might |
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still be more a late tech preview alpha. Time will tell. |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |
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|
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-- |
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