1 |
Karl, |
2 |
|
3 |
Thank you for informing me of this Eclipse working group. I wasn't |
4 |
aware of it. And reading the page you mentioned was very very very |
5 |
hauntingly like the issues that led us to creating the DLJ license and |
6 |
the jdk-distros project. |
7 |
|
8 |
The jdk-distros project is meant to be a staging ground for some of the |
9 |
linux-specific bits and documentation. However it's focused entirely on |
10 |
installers, and not the JDK code itself. The jdk-distros project uses |
11 |
the BSD license to facilitate even more fluid code sharing. |
12 |
|
13 |
You are probably talking about source changes, not installer changes..? |
14 |
|
15 |
The current contribution process is a work in progress and we know it's |
16 |
not the final one. We plan to develop a better contribution process |
17 |
over time. The process that's there is very similar to the process we |
18 |
use in-house that Sun engineers go through on every change we make to |
19 |
Java SE. We take stability as a very high attribute and the process we |
20 |
follow involves a lot of peer review and unit/etc testing before it is |
21 |
allowed into the central source repository. |
22 |
|
23 |
But, that said, any future contribution process is open for discussion. |
24 |
The appropriate place to take that is the mailing lists and/or forums on |
25 |
java.net. |
26 |
|
27 |
We are open to, in the future, having external contributors with direct |
28 |
putback rights. And that, too, is a topic for discussion. |
29 |
|
30 |
BTW, one goal for the jdk-distros project was for it to hold the |
31 |
installer scripts for each distribution using the DLJ. The |
32 |
Debian/Ubuntu scripts are in the jdk-distros repository. The Gentoo |
33 |
scripts could be, if you desire, if there is any need for it. |
34 |
|
35 |
The purpose was along the lines of what you have discussed. To |
36 |
facilitate sharing between the distribution makers of the installation |
37 |
procedures. |
38 |
|
39 |
- David Herron |
40 |
|
41 |
|
42 |
|
43 |
Karl Trygve Kalleberg wrote: |
44 |
> David Herron wrote: |
45 |
> |
46 |
>> Karl, I agree completely. |
47 |
>> |
48 |
>> We have been looking at this question for some time. Clearly in the JDK |
49 |
>> sources we have code that supports Linux, and we have code which |
50 |
>> supports SPARC, but not these two at the same time. It turns out to be |
51 |
>> a little difficult to bring those two together. |
52 |
>> |
53 |
> |
54 |
> I appreciate the engineering difficulties here, but I don't think they |
55 |
> are insurmountable given some time, motivation and elbow grease. |
56 |
> |
57 |
> |
58 |
>> I would think that in the not too far distant future there could be |
59 |
>> project(s) like you say working together in the openjdk project to |
60 |
>> support the JDK on new architectures and maybe new operating systems. |
61 |
>> e.g. The Free BSD team and that ilk might want to collaborate with us |
62 |
>> more directly now that our licenses are more open. |
63 |
>> |
64 |
>> How would *you* prefer that the collaboration would work? |
65 |
>> |
66 |
>> I know our preference is for the collaboration to be in the bounds of |
67 |
>> the openjdk project site. The governance and contribution procedures |
68 |
>> are a work in progress at the moment. You can see on the openjdk |
69 |
>> project site the contribution process. So, e.g., if you had a |
70 |
>> Gentoo-specific source change to make, you could submit it through that |
71 |
>> contribution process. |
72 |
>> |
73 |
> |
74 |
> My experience with other projects, such as Eclipse, tells me that it |
75 |
> would be preferable to have one common repository upstream (that's with |
76 |
> you guys) for collecting and sharing patches used in the packaging process. |
77 |
> |
78 |
> It turns out that many patches used by distro A are also very useful for |
79 |
> distro B -- this is a pretty established fact by now. Another |
80 |
> established fact is that we (the package maintainers on various distros) |
81 |
> spend a lot of time digging through each other's repos and home pages |
82 |
> looking for interesting patches for common problems. This is pure waste |
83 |
> of time. |
84 |
> |
85 |
> With Eclipse, we're combating this with a new project, see |
86 |
> http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/linux-distro/ |
87 |
> |
88 |
> Basically, the Eclipse Linux Distro project is a staging ground for |
89 |
> fixes/patches/improvements to Eclipse that are specific to Linux (I |
90 |
> don't think we're against *BSD in any way -- they've just not been part |
91 |
> of the process so far). |
92 |
> |
93 |
> The patches that end up in the Eclipse "Linux Distro" project will not |
94 |
> be automatically placed into the main Eclipse code base. They will most |
95 |
> likely simmer in the Eclipse Linux Distro for some time, and during that |
96 |
> time, it's up to the various distros whether they want to apply it or not. |
97 |
> |
98 |
> Some patches might eventually make it into the main Eclipse code base, |
99 |
> many won't. But even for those that won't, chances are that they'll be |
100 |
> maintained as the main Eclipse code base evolves, since they are often |
101 |
> shared across distros, and because maintainers from the various distros |
102 |
> have accesss to the Linux Distro code base. |
103 |
> |
104 |
> Perhaps a similar model will work for the JDK (which is our primary |
105 |
> concern ATM -- other projects like J2EE might follow), say a "JDK Linux |
106 |
> Distro" subproject of the OpenJDK. |
107 |
> |
108 |
> However, it is vitally important to keep the barriers for accessing and |
109 |
> working on the code base in such a JDK Linux Distro low. I wouldn't mind |
110 |
> having to sign the necessary CAs to commit to the JDK Linux Distro |
111 |
> subproject, but I *would* mind if some Sun engineer needs to bless my |
112 |
> code every time I have a patch to share with the other packagers. "Patch |
113 |
> blessing" should only be necessary when code is taken from the JDK Linux |
114 |
> Distro staging ground and put into the OpenJDK proper. |
115 |
> |
116 |
> |
117 |
> Since the Eclipse Linux Distro project is still in its infancy, it's too |
118 |
> early to tell how well this model works, but if I were in the Sun JDK |
119 |
> team, I'd keep an eye out for it and see how well it turns out to work. |
120 |
> |
121 |
> "A beginning is a very delicate time", as some fictitious princess once |
122 |
> said. |
123 |
> |
124 |
> |
125 |
> Cheers, |
126 |
> |
127 |
> -- Karl T |
128 |
> |