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On 10/31/05, dirk.schoenberger@×××××××××.de |
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<dirk.schoenberger@×××××××××.de> wrote: |
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> Just wanted to put my 2cent into the discussion. |
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> I suppose I am currently just a pure Gentoo-OSX user, and while I see the |
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> point of the prefix project, I am not really convinced by it. I like the |
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> way Gentoo integrates into the system, or at least the part accessible by |
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> a console. |
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|
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(Foreward: I'm not trying to be offensive or attack Dirk. Please |
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read the following as having being written with a 'thoughtful' or |
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'didactic' tone, because it is) |
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|
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Hmm. I would have to put my vote firmly in the opposite camp. If |
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Gentoo can't keep itself separate from OS X, it's useless to me, as I |
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depend on a fully-functioning OS X system for my day job. Anyone who |
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needs a working OS X system needs prefixed installs with gentoo-osx. |
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Path collisions != "integrat[ing] into the system". |
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|
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> I see this as an advantage above e.g. Fink, with its own namespace. The |
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> namespace variant implies that I have to fudge around with PATH variables |
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> and other CLI stuff, in order to get the apps working. I still have no |
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> real MacOSX integration, with App folder and GUI starter elements (which |
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> would be my biggest feature request) |
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|
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I see not trashing the existing system software as far more important |
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than the minor configuration of your path. This is Gentoo! What "App |
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folder" are you expecting? KDE menus, Gnome menus, etc. are basically |
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fancy widgets that execute CLI commands when you click on them. If |
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you need something to click on for your own sanity, the logical thing |
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for you to do would be to create some scripts in /Applications that |
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call the X apps you use when you click on them, assuming you got the X |
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apps installed in the first place. I wouldn't be surprised if someone |
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came up with a fink-commander-like project for OS X (to install and |
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run stuff) if the prefixed-installs-hurdle ever gets passed. |
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|
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> From what I see as a user, the Gentoo packages divide into 4 categories |
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> |
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> 1) packages which integrate nicely into the system (no dependencies, or |
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> dependencies which are properly provided by MacOS) |
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|
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No collisions and no dependencies? No reason to wait for gentoo-osx then. |
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|
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> 2) packages which clash with MacOS provided packages, things like python |
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> or automake spring to mind |
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|
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And bash, ls, grep, emacs, vi, vim, gcc, perl, python, tcl/tk, apache, |
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etc. etc. etc. |
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I would guess this is a _lot_ of packages, including most of the stuff |
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that just having a gentoo system depends on. |
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|
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> 3) packages which depend on 2) |
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|
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This wold be the rest of the packages. |
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|
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> 4) misc packages which are otherwise problematic. This means most of the |
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> package.masked packages, where I cannot really speak about. |
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|
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Not really a separate category. Any of the above can belong to your |
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category 4 as well. |
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|
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> The biggest problem is obiously the packages in 2) |
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|
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Which prefixed installs will solve. When portage fully supports |
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prefixed installs, then: |
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(1) A base system gets created by devs by whatever means (hopefully |
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the only step with mandatory dependencies on Apple tools) |
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(2) Regular users install the prefix-enabled base system into a prefix |
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(and add $PREFIX/bin, $PREFIX/sbin, etc. to .bashrc) |
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(3) 'emerge mypackage' uses the gentoo system in $PREFIX to build |
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'mypackage' and install in into |
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$PREFIX/regular/gentoo/path/for/the/package |
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(4) USERS REJOICE! |
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(5) At this point, I'm sure someone will start a 'fink-commander'-like |
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project for people who aren't comfortable with the command-line |
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|
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> My private idea in order to emerge packages in 3) would currently be to |
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> manually install the needed packages in places like /usr/local (instead of |
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> Gentoos /usr) and put these packages into package.provided. It would be |
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> really nice if I could use this way while still being able to use the |
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> emerge functionaltiy. Perhaps this could be handled by a special USE flag? |
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|
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Manually "install" packages whose dependencies won't install? I think |
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you have missed the concept that the dependencies are necessary to |
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both compile and run the package. |
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|
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Anyway, not trying to be disagreeable or mean--no offense meant to |
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Dirk in any way. |
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|
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I'm excited to hear kito/ferringb's news about prefixed install |
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progress. I've been a Gentoo user for 3 years and currently have over |
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a dozen rack-mounted Gentoo Linux (x86) servers (and more coming every |
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month). I've got four other developers at my work and myself using |
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100% Apple hardware on the desktop (powerbooks mostly), and soon 100% |
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Gentoo Linux on the servers. We're all currently using fink and |
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darwinports for our OSS currently--just waiting for prefixed |
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installs... |
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|
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Man, that took too long. I had better get to work. :-) |
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-- |
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