Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now

[Gevisz]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:13:53 +0100 Marc Stürmer <mail@×××××××××××××.de> wrote:

> Am 24.11.2014 um 19:25 schrieb Gevisz:
>
> > I switched from Ubuntu 10.04 to Gentoo just because it forced closing
> > window button "x" to the upper-left corner of the window in Unity of
> > Ubuntu 12.04 while I used to look for it in the upper-right corner. :)
> >
> > So, I see no reason that those that hate systemd would not do the same.
>
> I also did for my own server.
>
> But the real strength and home of Debian on a server is in the corporate
> environment, and in a CE you are facing other challenges, namely:
>
> * long term support (meaning for a few years),

Yes, I do agree with you. Long term support is indeed a challenge,
especially when it ends and you have to update to the new release. 

> * stable releases with a more or less stable and predictable release cycle,

Yes, predictable release cycle with unpredictable changes from
one release to the other is also a challenge. Especially when your
video card stops working after the upgrade. For example from Ubuntu 6.04
to Ubunto 8.04. 

> * steady stream of security updates as long as the release is being
> supported.

Yes, updates come almost every day and their downloading and installing
takes almost the same time as daily upgrade of Gentoo. (Except for compiling
a new Firefox, of course. But now, this problem in Gentoo is solved by
freezing the version of this browser: 24.8.0 in stable Gentoo tree vs
33.0 in Ubunto 12.04. :)  

>
> > ... the downloading all that crap also takes a lot of time.
>
> Downloading binaries takes of course some time, yes. But downloading
> e.g. the source code of Chromium compared to the binary of Chromium does
> take a multiply longer. And after the download of the binary you just
> need to unpack it and are ready to run it, on Gentoo you need to compile
> it.
>
> So binaries are by every mean faster to download and run than
> downloading the source, compiling it and then running it on a server.

It depends on your connection speed. 
 
> Even downloading the biggest archives and installing (without
> configuration) is normally done in under one minute.

It usually took me from 10 to 20 minutes to download my daily updates
in Ubuntu. For big packages - about 40 minutes or even more.

> That's the time saving aspect

lol :)

> Of course you got another can of worms that may be bug you instead.

My English is not so good to understand idioms
but I guess that here we agree. :)

> And if you don't like the example of Chromium, then take MySQL e.g.
> instead.
>
> People in a CE rarely have the time to deal with the added complicity of
> Gentoo compared to binary based distributions, and therefore Gentoo just
> don't fit for most of them.

If CE stands for Commercial Environment, I can agree.

> The thing is: compiling your own binaries on a production server is
> something many people won't like, because it takes power from the other
> processes away for that time.

Agree.

> And having a fully fledged C/C++ compiler running on your server is a
> security hole, if you are paranoid enough.

Never thought about it, but may be you are right.
 
> Of course you could setup just a compiling server for all of your
> other servers, but this takes time and adds complexity.

Agree.

> > Steady "release cycle" is also not so good.
>
> It depends on your case.

Here I also can agree.
 
> All the major BSDs, FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD, have had a steady
> release cycle - a new release every half year - for almost two decades
> now and they are content with that.

Probably they do not change API (or reposition window control buttons :)
every 6 months.