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Martin Herrman posted on Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:51:23 +0100 as excerpted: |
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|
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> actually, I had already read [the bug] before I wrote the original |
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> posting. I just didn't realise that I could 'safely' unmask the package |
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> (because I already had chosen to run the unstable KDE4.3 release). |
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|
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Good, you put the "'safely'" in quotation marks. Given that you already |
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chose to run the unstable kde4.3, it's no /additional/ risk, and actually |
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is by far less trouble than otherwise, but you obviously realize the |
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(measured) level of risk you take going with unstable kde4.3 or you'd |
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have not had to use those quotation marks around /safely/. |
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|
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=:^/ |
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|
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> I like the concept of Gentoo, the power it gives to me, the safe |
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> bleeding-edge apps and the ease in which I can run my own custom build |
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> kernel. But on the other hand: I just need a working desktop and in 98% |
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> of the cases I don't want to dive into all the details to get things |
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> working. This seems to be a contradiction, I should have been an Ubuntu |
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> user, but that's not true :-D Now and then I apply some custom |
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> USE-flags, but I stick to the default install as much as I can so I'm |
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> not the one to discover bugs. |
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|
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... but you didn't quote "safe" there. =:^\ Maybe that's because it's a |
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bother when you already quoted it above, but anyway... |
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|
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|
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Really, truth be known, from my perspective the whole kde thing is |
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screwed up right now -- and not by Gentoo, but upstream kde. |
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Unfortunately there's a kde conundrum. kde4 is still under /very/ heavy |
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development, and still has significant enough bugs that to call it |
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"stable" in /any/ form remains a bit of a stretch. Honestly, despite kde- |
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upstream's claims about kde4.2, even kde4.3 is only now reaching late |
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beta, 4.2 was early beta or late alpha, 4.1 was early alpha, and 4.0 was |
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only a conference level technology preview. By many predictions |
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(including but not limited to my own), 4.4 should finally be release |
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candidate level, no real show-stoppers but still somewhat rough around |
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the edges. Following that trend, 4.5 should finally be more or less |
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ready for normal/ordinary use -- full release. (Well, there's a possible |
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exception for kmail, which will be switching to akonadi with 4.5, but |
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they are said and one hopes it's true, to be taking their time and |
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getting it right, the reason they didn't try for 4.4. Perhaps that's the |
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"less" of "more or less", above.) |
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|
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Given that, in a sane world, kde 3 would remain supported and with us for |
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another year, thru 2010 at least, since 4.4 is scheduled for February, |
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4.5 for August, and there should be at least a few months of overlap to |
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give people time to sanely make the change before the end of support for |
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the previous stable version. |
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|
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Unfortunately, by that metric, kde no longer belongs to a sane world |
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(which of course implies serious questions about the sanity of those who |
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still use it... like me and obviously you, but be that as it may...), |
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since it dropped kde3 support with the release of 3.5.10 and 4.2.0. And |
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of course the qt3 upon which kde3 is built was EOLed before that (tho |
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I've never checked the specific timing on that end, only taken kde's word |
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for it). |
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|
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Unfortunately, but those are the facts on the ground as distributions and |
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ultimately us users must deal with them. Simplest terms, that leaves us |
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users stuck between a rock and a hard place. We have three choices: |
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|
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(1) Dump kde entirely for something "sane". |
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|
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While this might be the "sane" choice, many users don't find it |
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particularly viable, for whatever reason. |
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|
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(2) Follow kde3/qt3 off into the sunset, at least until kde4 is found |
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suitably stable (for various definitions of "stable"). That's likely |
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another year if we're lucky for traditional "stable" distribution users, |
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including gentoo stable arch users. For those like me who enjoy testing |
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betas, the current 4.3 is about right. (I switched with 4.2.4, but it |
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was **EXTREMELY** difficult, over a hundred hours of /extra/ work, |
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hacking scripts to replace broken functionality, etc, in /addition/ to |
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the usual and expected upgrade hassles. Few have the time even if they |
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had the motivation and skills for such an undertaking.). Obviously, the |
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real bleeding edge folks, or those who are generally content with the |
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default/common functionality, could have (and many did) changed earlier, |
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while those between the beta/unstable tester folks like me and the stable |
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folks, will find a point in the middle to switch. |
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|
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(3) Undertake a "forced" upgrade to kde4, likely before one would have |
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otherwise done so. |
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|
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Actually, I did this, as I had been /trying/ (and failing) to do the 4.x |
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upgrade since before 4.0, and would have definitely waited until at least |
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4.3, had kde3 not already been marching off into the sunset. (I like to |
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give myself plenty of time, and get the conversion done well before the |
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drop-dead date, which I did, tho at enormous cost in time and hassle.) |
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|
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Meanwhile, and this is the point of the message, for those choosing #3, |
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because kde4 /is/ under such intense continued development, and because |
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it /does/ have such serious bugs remaining, once one is on kde4, the |
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latest stable upstream kde4, thus for Gentoo users, ~arch keyworded kde4, |
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since it takes some time to stabilize on Gentoo, is likely going to be |
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less trouble than stable kde4, because more bugs are fixed upstream, and |
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the major kde4 integration issues are already dealt with at the |
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gentoo/kde level, so what remains is rather minor integration bugs for |
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~arch, as the measured risk for getting the DEFINITELY more bugfixed |
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latest from kde upstream. |
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|
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Given all that and being the beta tester type I am, I'd probably actually |
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be running the kde-4.3.8x kde-4.4 betas from the kde overlay, except that |
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I have another major project I'm working on ATM -- getting my Acer Aspire |
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One netbook up and running on Gentoo. But that's close, and I may or may |
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not get to the 4.4-rcs before the 4.4.0 general release. |
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|
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(FWIW on the AA1, I have the completed image done on my main machine, |
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copied to USB stick, copied from there to the AA1's drive, and tested |
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booting. But I screwed up the grub install somehow and thus still have |
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to boot from the grub on the USB stick, but to the installation on the |
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hard drive, so I have that to figure out still, and then I still have X |
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and kde to configure/customize, networking to get running, etc. A few |
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hours more work, probably, but it's /almost/ there! I'm hoping to have |
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it running tomorrow, before the new year starts, at LEAST the grub bit |
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worked out, and hopefully xorg, with the syntouch config for the evdev |
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driver and the extra keys. If I'm still running the default kde4.3 as |
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the new year comes in, but have the grub issue traced and resolved, and |
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xorg/keyboard-extra-keys/syntouch configured, I'll be happy. =:^) |
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|
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(But what I'm /really/ looking forward to for the netbook is the |
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plasma-netbook aka plasma-newspaper layout, tho that's kde4.5 material |
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I think.) |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman |