[gentoo-amd64] Re: KDE4 problems

[Duncan]

"Mark Haney" <mhaney@××××××××××××.org> posted
4A65A339.6080109@××××××××××××.org, excerpted below, on  Tue, 21 Jul 2009
07:15:05 -0400:

> Fernando Boaglio wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I'm a big fan of KDE, but since release 4.2.4 I 've been through some
>> issues ... and AFAIK is 64bit only:

Did you upgrade from 3.5 to 4.2.4 directly, or had you run earlier 4.x 
versions as well?  Were the earlier 4.x versions working?

FWIW, I've been trying to switch to the 4.x version since the 4.0 betas, 
but without success until I got some extra time the last couple weeks and 
decided now was the time to do it.  I'm still having various issues, but 
have overcome enough of them that I'm running 4.2.4 by default now, and 
have unmerged most all of kde-3.5.10 but the base environment as I switch 
to kde4 versions of kmail, etc.

Note that the rest of this comes across much more strongly negative than 
I tend to be in general or about kde in general.  Fighting for hours a 
day, for days, to the point I'm only sleeping 3-4 hours most nights as 
I'm up struggling with yet another problem, trying to fix or work around 
issues in kde4 where kde3 "just worked", can do that to a guy.  But I AM 
gradually working thru them, often developing workarounds for what 
remains broken, but other times finding fixes to apply.  But honestly, if 
I didn't believe in KDE, and didn't therefore have strong motivation to 
stick with it, I'd not be bothering and thus wouldn't be so grumpy right 
about now, so it's not all as negative as it seems.

But most of my issues are "power user" issues.  Stuff like the fact that 
I used khotkeys multi-key mode HEAVILY in 3.5, and global multikeys don't 
work at all in 4.x and probably won't for some time, according to the 
bug.  Stuff like no replacement for the ksysguard kicker applet. 
(ksysguard itself is still there, now called system monitor, but there's 
no plasmoid containment to run it in, yet.)

But meanwhile, I've found the kde lists (kde, listed as kde-general on 
gmane's list2news gateway, and kde-linux) reasonably helpful.  You might 
wish to come over and have a look around.  =:^)

>> - Amarok is mute =(

I finally got fed-up with amarok, when the devs decided to require a 
mysql client library that was wasn't designed for the way they were using 
it, and that was broken on amd64.  But that was simply the last straw, as 
they'd already pulled most of the features out of the 4.x version that I 
used amarok for, while leaving the features I didn't use much and didn't 
care about, requiring all sorts of dependencies I didn't otherwise need 
on my system, and developing even MORE such features and dependencies, 
including, eventually, that mysql library thing.

So I switched to something else.  As it happens, mpd, music player 
daemon, with various clients (qmpdclient for kde4, at first kmp for kde3 
tho I've unmerged it with the other "extra" kde3 stuff now, mpc for the 
command line, and ncmpc and ncmpcpp for ncurses based interface, there's 
also gtk and even web based clients tho I don't have those installed...) 
was still WAY WAY less bloated than amarok, still has a music library 
(tho I do mostly net/shoutcast streaming based listening), AND doesn't 
shut down when I close X.

I still miss the kde3/amarok visualizations and winamp skin 
compatibility, but those were some of the features that I mentioned above 
that I actually used that were done away with for the kde4 version, so 
it's not like I lost anything I wasn't already losing in amarok, and I 
gained a lot, including console based playback and all sorts of client 
flexibility, while losing all those bloated dependencies for features I 
didn't use anyway.

But that's just me, based on what I used of it.  If you use the music 
scoring and advanced library management features of amarok, you'll 
probably want to keep it, regardless of the bloat.  YMMV, as they say, 
but there ARE other alternatives if you're looking for something not 
quite as "heavy", and without the issues keeping it working.

>> - devices are not mounting automatically =(
>>
>> I've tried some fixes I read on forums without any luck.
>>
>> So... how about you guys, same thing? =)
>>
>> BTW, I'm running now 4.3RC2 with the same problems =/

I got burnt out on pre-alpha quality kde4 being billed as release quality 
some time ago, so I've stayed away from everything but full releases for 
awhile... and it's STILL nowhere near kde3.5's quality, tho the trend is 
good and it's MUCH better than it was.  I'm not alone in predicting it 
might actually get to something approaching 3.5 quality by 4.5, which, 
given their six month minor release timing and the fact that 4.3 is 
scheduled for just days from now, should be about a year...

But I'm still getting tempted to try 4.3 rcs, now that I've worked around 
enough of the issues remaining in 4.2.4 to actually start using it as my 
default desktop.

> My Amarok works just fine, I use it all the time for radio and podcasts
> without trouble.

Yeah, now that all the distributions finished running around like 
chickens with their heads cut off trying to fix the broken on amd64 
libraries that the amarok devs decided to use... without considering the 
effect on their amd64 users or the various distributions trying to 
support them.

But regardless, it's no longer a problem I need to deal with, now.  My 
current solution "just works".  YMMV.

> As for mounting devices automatically I don't do that anymore, I had
> issues with devices automounting, but being boinced from mount point to
> mount point (ie /dev/sda1 to /dev/sdb1 to /dev/sdc1) even if I left the
> device connected.  So I manually mount everything now.

Same here, for the most part.  I tend to distrust "automagic" stuff like 
automount, due to the various issues I've had with that sort of stuff and 
a certain proprietary platform that does all that automagic including 
autorun, by default, with the resulting malware including such things as 
Sony branded rootkits, etc.

If I want it mounted, I mount it.  If I want it unmounted, I unmount it.  
Don't complicate my life by breaking what's perfectly functional as it 
is, and I'll be happy.

(Still, I said "for the most part", as I do occasionally take advantage 
of hal notification and automount for thumb drives and the like, despite 
my misgivings, when it works.  I just don't expect it to always work, and 
have already had problems with for instance k3b, due to hal wanting to 
mount a just-burned disk one place, while /etc/fstab says it should be 
mounted elsewhere, and various bits of k3b getting mixed up when they 
look one place and it's at the other, or not mounted at all due to hal 
not obeying the plain as day configuration in fstab, when k3b is /trying/ 
to verify the image it just burned.  If hal would just stay out of the 
way and let fstab and k3b or manual mounting handle it, my live wouldn't 
have had to be complicated by that bug!)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman