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On Sat, Nov 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Frank Peters <frank.peters@×××××××.net> wrote: |
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> On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:13:30 -0600 |
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> Steven Lembark <lembark@×××××××.com> wrote: |
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> |
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>> |
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>> Q: What do you need the custom xconfig for? |
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>> |
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>> You might find that life is easier if you remove |
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>> the xorg.conf, switch to evdev as the input, |
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>> |
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> |
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> [The following is only an innocent spiel, and is not intended |
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> to be in any way unfriendly.] |
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|
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I didn't find it unfriendly; on the contrary, quite informative. |
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|
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> Make life easier? Nothing could be further from the truth. |
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> |
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> After doing some research into making the supposedly simple change |
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> of switching to evdev, I find that I am required to: |
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> |
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> 1) Reconfigure the kernel to include many things, such as hotplug, |
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> which I do not want or need. |
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> |
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> 2) Install and configure udev, which is a horrendous and totally |
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> unwarranted and needless nightmare. |
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> |
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> 3) Trash my established (and simple) /dev tree |
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> |
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> 4) Get rid of module-init-tools |
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> |
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> 5) Many other ridiculous and needless tasks that are associated with all |
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> of the above. |
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> |
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> And for what? Just so that I can joyously sit back and watch X come |
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> to life without a configuration file? No thank you. I'll pass. |
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> |
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> The purpose of the edev driver, as stated in the Gentoo manual, is |
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> only this: |
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> |
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> "The evdev driver configures your input devices, as needed, using HAL or udev. |
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> This allows for the X server to automatically detect the keyboard and mouse |
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> you're using for your input devices, and removes the need to specify your |
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> devices in xorg.conf." |
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> |
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> I am so sorry, but I remain thoroughly unimpressed. I know exactly |
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> what is connected to my machine. I do not require some convoluted |
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> and barely workable user-space software scheme to figure it out for me. |
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|
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I do agree that if you "know exactly what is connected" to your |
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machine (and this never changes), udev (or mdev, or devfs for that |
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matter) is basically useless. Just take in mind that the majority of |
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users connect and disconnect stuff from their computers/tablets/phones |
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all the time (USB webcams, joysticks, scanners, printers; bluetooth |
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headphones, keyboards, phones; eSATA disks), and therefore the |
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developers tend to care more about that use case, which is the general |
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one and it contains the static one. |
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|
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> What disturbs me the most, however, is this business about udev. |
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> |
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> IMO, udev is the most twisted and unnecessary piece of cr** to have |
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> ever been foisted upon the Linux world. It is apparently the brainchild |
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> of the Freedesktop project, who are always busily creating more bloated |
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> graphical extravaganzas in some misguided mission to outdo Microsoft. |
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|
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Actually, udev was started by kernel developer Greg Kroah-Hartman. |
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|
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> I refuse to jump on that garish bandwagon. I have *real* computing |
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> to accomplish. |
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|
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All of us (I would think) have "real" computing to accomplish. That's |
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why many of us prefer not to worry about xorg.conf (or any other |
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configuration file) every time we change keyboard or mouse. |
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|
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> For me, the appeal of Linux is that it allows the user to configure |
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> and customize his system to suit his personal preferences, however bizarre |
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> or unconventional those may be. |
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|
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As you say, for you. For many others the appeal is different; either |
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because is free (as in libre), or because it gets the job done, or |
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because it's faster. Customization is a completely valid reason to use |
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Linux; it's just not the only one. |
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|
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> The job of the Linux developers, therefore, |
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> should be to maintain that state of openness and not to constrain |
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> the user to any particular methodology. |
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|
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With this I strongly disagree. The "job" of the developers is the one |
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they are being paid for, if they are being paid; and if not, their |
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"job" is to do whatever the hell they want to. If you are an employer |
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you have the right to *demand* a developer who is your employee |
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whatever you want. If you are just a user (like myself), you do not |
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have the right to *demand* anything. You can of course express your |
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opinion, but the devs have no obligation whatsoever to even listening |
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to it. If you don't like the direction of an open source project, you |
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have (now and forever) the freedom to choose another project, fork the |
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project to take it in the direction you want to (as some Gentoo devs |
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have recently decided to do with udev), or start contributing to the |
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project so it goes in the direction you believe is the correct one. |
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|
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But if you are not actually writing the code or paying someone else to |
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do it, you don't get to tell anyone what the job of a developer is. Or |
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more precisely, you can say it, just don't expect the developers to |
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actually caring about what you (or I) have to say. They *could* care, |
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of course; they are just not *obligated* to. |
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|
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> IOW, Linux is about *choice* |
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> and not about conformity. |
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Nobody has done anything to your freedom to choose whatever you want. |
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Just don't expect that someone else will do the work to maintain the |
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xf86-input-keyboard and xf86-input-mouse drivers; and don't expect the |
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X.org developers to care about them if they believe that |
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xf86-input-evdev is the correct answer because it works in the general |
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case, and they don't mind that it needs udev. |
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> My choice is simple: absolutely no udev (or any equivalent). |
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> If others desire to have it, then that is their choice, but |
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> I should never be forced to follow along. |
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|
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Nobody is forcing anything on you (how could anyone do that?) But |
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someone has to maintain the code for old drivers to keep working in |
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new X.org releases and new kernels. Interfaces and libraries change, |
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and keeping up old code is work that usually nobody wants to do, |
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specially if it only caters to a small subset of the intended users. |
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You don't want to use evdev since it requires udev? That's fine; just |
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don't expect that someone else is going to maintain it for you. |
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> Hopefully, Gentoo has not lost this understanding and will strive |
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> to maintain the wisdom. |
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|
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What wisdom? |
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|
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Regards. |
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-- |
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Canek Peláez Valdés |
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Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación |
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Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México |