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On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 1:30 PM, Frank Peters <frank.peters@×××××××.net> wrote: |
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> On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 12:37:58 -0500 |
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> Canek Peláez Valdés <caneko@×××××.com> wrote: |
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> |
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>> |
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>> This last part is important; if you don't like systemd, bitching about |
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>> it will do nothing: you have to use and contribute to the |
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>> alternatives. Linux (and Gentoo) are about choice, as long as there is |
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>> someone willing and able to provide that choice; no one will |
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>> (necessarily) provide that choice for you out of nothing. |
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>> |
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> |
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> The kind of choice I am speaking about is the choice of "rolling |
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> your own." I want to be able to control and customize my system |
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> in a way that I deem fit. The kernel, after it loads and does its |
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> initialization thing, passes control onto an arbitrary program for |
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> further configuration. This simple design allows extreme versatility |
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> and customization for those who want it while also permitting more |
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> complex schemes as well. |
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|
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To "roll your own", somebody needs to provide the parts, and test that |
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the integration works. Nobody (necessarily) will do it for you; and |
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you can contribute by testing the parts you use and the integration |
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among them. You can use OpenRC + eudev + ubus + Xfce, help detect the |
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problems in them, and help reporting the issues when they don't work |
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correctly together. |
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|
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If you don't do it, and nobody else does, then don't act surprised if |
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eventually everybody uses systemd, because there is people working on |
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it and testing it in different configurations. |
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|
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> In this case, there is no contribution to be made. There can only |
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> be a rant about leaving things the way they are. |
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|
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Wrong: see above. |
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|
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> How do you feel about the accuracy of the following statements which |
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> are taken from a related web page at http://uselessd.darknedgy.net ? |
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|
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It's a bunch of (very entertaining) FUD. To me, it losses all |
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credibility when it ascertains "Distro maintainers are lazy". Well |
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then, I expect that he maintains his own distro. |
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|
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Also, I find it highly ironic that, after *years* of bashing systemd |
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and its design, when *no other* init system seems able to be a proper |
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competition, the next thing the systemd-haters try is to announce a |
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brand new init... by forking systemd. So, its design is not so bad |
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after all, right? Otherwise, they would have started from scratch. |
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|
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> "Most core Linux applications and even the kernel are developed by |
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> a handful of companies, largely by Red Hat (who inherited much of the |
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> work on GNU after acquiring Cygnus Solutions, thus also leading GNOME |
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> and various other projects), who also support the opaque Freedesktop.org |
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> standards. |
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|
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FUD. In systemd (and GNOME, for that matter) work people from *many* |
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companies; RedHat is obviously among them, but it also has developers |
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from Mageia, ProFusion (recently acquired by Intel), Canonical, Suse, |
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Collabora, Sun, IBM, etc., etc., etc. Also, it has contributors from |
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basically every distribution out there (including Gentoo). You can get |
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a list of contributors from the git repository using: |
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|
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git log --format='%aN' |
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|
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and then you don't need to trust anyone, but the code itself. |
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|
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> "systemd is designed to be perpetually rolling software, not all that |
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> different from a kernel in user space, as was elucidated in a 2014 GNOME |
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> Asia talk. It has no clearly defined purpose beyond that other than the |
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> vague 'basic building block to make an OS from' ... |
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|
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I actually agree with systemd being perpetually rolling software, but |
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I think it's a good thing. Gentoo itself is a rolling released |
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distribution; systemd fits perfectly with our distro; I've been using |
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it since 2010 in servers, desktops, laptops and everything I can put |
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it on, like my media center. |
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|
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I don't know right now, but there was a point when I was pretty sure |
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systemd worked better on Gentoo than on Fedora. It's possible that |
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it's the case now. |
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|
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Lastly, if someone sees "basic building block to make an OS from" like |
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something "vague", then she should do her homework. |
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|
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> "The end goal appears to be the creation of what we dub a Grand Unified |
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> Linux Operating System (GULOS) and the destruction of the Linux distribution |
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> altogether beyond cosmetic changes. GnomeOS, in particular. The latter is |
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> actually a thing that GNOME aspire to accomplish." |
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|
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I think unification among distributions is an excellent goal, but it |
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doesn't mean that distros will lose its identity. They will just work |
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better between them. |
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|
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Also, I think there will be always distributions that will work with |
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SysV, or OpenRC, or what have you. It's Free Software. |
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|
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> IMO such planning and goals are slowly taking over the Linux ecosystem. |
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> After all, RedHat cannot offer a fragmented and "hobbyist" OS to its paying |
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> corporate clients. Only a "Grand Unified Linux OS," a la Microsoft Windows, |
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> can compete in a professional market, and RedHat will thus lead the way in |
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> destroying the simplicity of Linux. |
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|
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Sorry, but I call it FUD. Truth is, everything in this discussion |
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(systemd, OpenRC, Linux, GNOME, even uselessd) is Free Software. |
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Therefore, nothing is stopping anyone to take the software and |
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stripping out the things they don't like about it... which, BTW, is |
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exactly what the guy in uselessd is doing. |
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> These trends should be alarming to us all. |
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|
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Why? Because developers are writing software as best as they think |
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they can? You cannot stop any developer from writing whatever the hell |
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they want and releasing it as Free Software. You cannot stop users |
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from using said software. You cannot stop distro maintainers from |
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deciding that software X or Y is the best option for a distribution. |
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In the Free Software world, you cannot stop anyone from nothing. The |
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only thing you can do is providing more software, or helping someone |
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else to provide it. |
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Which brings me back to my original post. Don't like systemd? Help the |
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competition. |
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Otherwise you can of course rant, but in the end that will do nothing. |
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|
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Regards. |
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-- |
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Canek Peláez Valdés |
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Profesor de asignatura, Facultad de Ciencias |
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Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México |