Re: [gentoo-amd64] Re: Hurray! Radeon KMS in 2.6.31

[Lie Ryan]

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Duncan wrote:
> Lie Ryan <lie.1296@×××××.com> posted 4A3A621D.8010207@×××××.com, excerpted
> below, on  Fri, 19 Jun 2009 01:49:49 +1000:
>
>> I'd rather say, because laptops are the majority now, dual monitor
>> support is going to be more important. I (and I'm sure many others)
>> prefer doing presentations from my own laptop, rather than using the
>> audience's computers (which always have issues with not having the
>> appropriate programs, etc; not to mention having to move the
>> presentation files, which is easier said than done).
>
> I thought that's what I /was/ saying, with the additional bit that dual
> desktop display probably never will become the majority, because desktops
> are losing the majority, so there's no time left for dual desktop
> displays to become the majority -- the majority is now laptop, and dual
> display with a laptop is much more common than it ever became on the
> desktop.

Ah I see, I didn't notice you're saying it is dual monitor desktop that
is declining; instead of dual monitor setup.

>> One thing that always bugs me is that XRandR requires some
>> configuration[1] and X restart[2], which is a pity, since doing
>> presentations means setting up ad-hoc/temporary settings which is just
>> used for an hour or two, then tearing them apart again then doing that
>> again the next day, probably on a different venue.
>
> Well, in theory, you can setup the config once, and as long as the second
> display plugged in fits within the parameters set in the config, it'll be
> used as such, no X restart should be needed.

But that means there will always be a second "monitor" that you can't
see, but is accessible by programs and the mouse. After unplugging the
external display, this invisible monitor could be quite... disturbing[1].

[1] e.g. OpenOffice trying to start the presentation on the invisible
screen. I can switch the configuration to display on the current
monitor, but that makes the default autodetect setting useless. Most of
the problems are minor and silly, but still...

In fact, that was the best set up I could do. I figured out a way to
allow X to start with single monitor setting with h/w acceleration if
there is no external monitor connected; and starting with a different
configuration when there is external monitor. However switching between
these two configs still requires a restart. At least this is acceptable,
since the most time-consuming and head-consuming part is figuring out
the right configuration when everyone in the room is looking at you (I
had to do exactly that on one of my first presentations with Linux[2])

[2] the very next day, I pulled out my old monitor and experimented with
approximately two thousand settings, before coming to that acceptable
setting

> The other problem is that a lot of apps aren't particularly RandR aware
> yet, or only expect to be using it with a single monitor, so putting
> stuff in full-screen mode can have unexpected consequences, as it often
> changes the resolution for BOTH monitors, and either puts the full-screen
> app centered between them (but at the size of only one of them, so it's
> not really full-screen), or clones to both, instead of only cloning to
> one and leaving the other one alone.
>
> But that's not xorg's or RandR's problem, that's the application's
> problem.  And with the appropriate scripted and hotkey invoked xrandr
> calls, as I have setup, it's relatively easy to get the system back to
> its proper configuration, even when the apps screw it up.

But the most significant problem is hardware compatibility, I have a
laptop that works great with xrandr... as long as it's a single monitor.

>> Mirrored is okay, but I prefer Xinerama/extended desktop. Now that
>> OpenOffice 3 starts having support for Presenter View (where the
>> projector displays the presentation and your laptop's your notes), not
>> being able to just plug the cable in and have the whole thing set up
>> automagically is a big loss.
>
> Indeed.  My config is dual monitor desktop and I'm not a "mobile
> warrior", but I can certainly see the use for that in mobile warrior
> presentation situations.

It gets even worse when you're the fifth person to present and "getting
there early and make sure everything is set up" is a naive theory.

You only have around of 2-3 minutes before the audience is waiting too
long for presenter switching[3]. If things goes smooth, we only need to
connect the cable and press F5 to switch from editing to presenting; but
for now: connect the cable, restart X, make sure the configs are right,
start OpenOffice (since restarting X closed it), then F5.

[3] I have a special condition where I often have to do presentations
that is just around 10-15 minutes and there are a couple of other
presenters going before and after. This makes a 2-3 minutes a very long
delay.

>> [1] not to mention I never get all the settings right, either hardware
>> acceleration or Xinerama. A separate X display is acceptable, but still
>> no hardware acceleration.
>> [2] to move between single display to Xinerama and back.
>
> It'll be nice when the xrandr based graphical monitor/desktop config
> applets catchup, and Linux/X finally catches up to what MSWindows was
> doing over a decade ago back with Windows 98!  Linux/X has been more
> flexible in some areas, but unfortunately, that has never been one of
> them.  But it's getting there, FINALLY!
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