Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Stuart Herbert <stuart@g.o>
To: Max Kalika <max@g.o>, Troy Dack <tad@g.o>, gentoo-dev@g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] [GLEP] Web Application Installation
Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:45:24
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] [GLEP] Web Application Installation by Max Kalika
1 On Sunday 03 August 2003 8:03 pm, Max Kalika wrote:
2 > Chugga chugga chugga! :-)
4 Lots of laughter.
6 > You're absolutely right, and in fact this is what the eclass does right now
7 > (as shown by the example I posted earlier).
9 ;-)
11 > > Thanks for the example - it helps a great deal. Now, how would you deal
12 > > with a site needing to run two copies of horde under the one web server?
13 >
14 > Hmm. This depends on the app. Some apps have virtual hosting built-in
15 > others do not. Those that do not, may need some sysadmin intervention,
16 > doing some parallel installs, symlinking, what-have-you. I think we need
17 > to have a limit to how much we can do at install time and how much we can
18 > configure for the user out-of-the-box. For example, we don't have any way
19 > of having two postfix instances installed and running on the same box with
20 > the ebuild, but the sysadmin can go ahead and configure the installed
21 > product to achieve the needed functionality.
23 True. But most webapps will rely on the webserver to handle the virtual
24 hosting side of things - and that's something we *can* support through
25 user-space tools.
27 > > Yeah - but how do you handle sites (like ISPs) that need to run multiple
28 > > installations of the same app on the same box? You can't have a single
29 > > globla configuration file for that. Makes sense for the home user, but
30 > > not for ISPs.
31 >
32 > Continuing from above, it seems best left to the systems admin in designing
33 > how to implement virtual hosting. For example, horde has built-in virtual
34 > hosting where you specify multiple servers and the specific one gets chosen
35 > based on the server hostname. Of course this isn't foolproof as things
36 > like SSL will break it, but in any case, this decision has to be left to
37 > the person installing it. It seems like the gentoo philosophy is to install
38 > the necessary minimum to have a running product and leave the major
39 > tinkering to the admin.
41 Quoting again, the phrase 'automatically configured' can be
42 found. Where we can do a sensible minimum, I think we should.
44 > Going back to the postfix example, although the
45 > package has support for delivering mail to LMTP through a content filter
46 > that will scan for spam and viruses, it doesn't do it out of the box and
47 > takes a bit of tinkering to get right. I'm of the opinion that if someone
48 > wants to set up an ISP, they better know what they're doing and will be
49 > able to figure out how to virtualize the necessary packages they want to
50 > offer to their clients.
52 Problem with that is that it prevents 'emerge -u world' from being something
53 that you can safely put in cron.
55 > Ok. If there's a lot of language-specific work that needs to be done, then
56 > breaking it up into separate eclasses makes sense, otherwise, I'm worried
57 > about clutter. :)
59 Yeah, clutter is a problem - but so is ten ebuilds each with their own way of
60 achieving the same piece of testing.
62 And on that note ... (drum roll please) ... take a look at the new
63 webapp-apache.eclass file that I've just committed to CVS. All it does (for
64 now) is provide a standardised way of determine where HTDOCSDIR is, and which
65 Apache version to install support for.
67 I admit it's a stop-gap solution; it's not enough on its own to make ebuilds
68 webserver-neutral. But at least we can move all the apache-specific crud
69 into the one place, as a starter for ten.
71 Yeah, okay, I'm jumping ahead of the GLEP being approved perhaps, but I needed
72 this to close two outstanding bugs this afternoon, so that's my justification
73 <grin>. Not exactly like I've gone and moved stuff into the proposed
74 'web-???' categories yet ;-)
76 > Fair enough. So something like "webapp-config <application> <webserver>" ?
78 I think so, yeah. Robin's the best person to talk about this, as he had very
79 firm ideas about what he wanted to implement.
81 > > How do you make an app install on (say) Zeus or (say) iPlanet or (say)
82 > > n.e.other web server if the ebuild itself is server-specific? We're
83 > > boxing ourselves in, for no good reason.
84 >
85 > No idea. :-)
87 Exactly ;-) This is the problem that I think we should be solving.
89 Anyway, take a look at the eclass, and let's talk about what else needs adding
90 to it - and let's get it added.
92 A word of warning - although the eclass is called 'webapp-apache', it's
93 designed to *hide* apache-specificness as much as possible behind its
94 interface. If you add anything to the eclass, I'd appreciate it if you
95 followed this design idea ;-)
97 Robin (if you're following this!) I think you could make mod_php inherit this
98 class safely too, to reduce duplication still further.
100 Take care,
101 Stu
102 --
103 Stuart Herbert stuart@g.o
104 Gentoo Developer
105 Beta packages for download
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109 --


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] [GLEP] Web Application Installation Max Kalika <max@g.o>