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On 10-11-2005 20:55:37 +0000, Stuart Herbert wrote: |
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Ok, you want a reaction, because you are Feeling Blue[1], right. |
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> On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 20:11 +0100, Grobian wrote: |
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> > Ciaran McCreesh wrote: |
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> > > That's your first misconception right there. Most users don't sign up |
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> > > for things. |
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> > |
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> > Doesn't matter. |
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> |
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> I think it does. I believe that is the root cause of our difficulty in |
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> getting news to our users. We rely on our users coming to us to find |
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> the news. If they don't do that, they don't get the news. |
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> |
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> Our aim is to put the news in front of 100% of our userbase. Not the |
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> small fractions who check each of the places where news is currently |
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> published. |
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You describe here (and in your diary) the aim to reach 100% of our user |
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base. Wow, nice thing. Discussions on whether you will succeed or not, |
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are out of the question right now, it's just your aim. Good. I hope |
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you will succeed! |
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> > Besides that, I see no arguments why users don't. No proof either. |
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> |
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> No proof?!? |
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> |
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> Did you read the original blog posting which kicked this off? Or the |
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> thread in the forums where our users claim the Apache upgrade was a |
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> surprise - even though this was a well-trailed change? That's just one |
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> change. |
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I scoured the forums a bit and looked what users were telling. I wasn't |
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surprised. What do you expect from a user telling it all doesn't work |
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any more, who doesn't run etc-update just because "after every emerge |
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--upgrade --world it has over 100 files to update"? Such user just |
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ignores the importance of the tool, and will most certainly ignore |
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anything else that we try to help this user. This was just one example. |
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It is a very humble attempt to try and help these users, but they simply |
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chose the wrong Linux distro, because Gentoo expects you to be an system |
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administrator, not a user. At least that's my vision on it. I think we |
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can agree that Gentoo requires a user to know/realise more than a |
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Fedora/SuSe/Ubuntu user. |
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> I don't understand the problem from your point of view. No, scratch |
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> that. I don't understand your point of view. You're coming across to |
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> me as someone who doesn't believe there's a problem that needs solving. |
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I am just in the opinion that we lack a system where users can find the |
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information they need. That would help a certain type of users, |
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absolutely not all of them. So yes, after that, this problem needs |
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solving, perhaps. Personalisation using portage is a sweet thing! |
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Here comes the point where I can express my doubt about the 100%. There |
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are unfortunately users who are too hard to help, if you get what I |
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mean. |
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> I'm tempted to forcibly co-opt you into the PHP team before we put |
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> dev-lang/php live. This would allow you to experience the situation for |
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> yourself. Maybe that would give you another perspective? ;-) |
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Might be a very good excercise for me (and you?). As you might guess |
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from my comment above, I simply think _communication_ is the big |
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problem, as I see being a problem in many places around here. Not that |
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perfect communication solves the problem entirely, but it allows to |
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reply in the sense of 'rtfw'. |
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If you're serious here, feel free to contact me (off-list) to see what |
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we can arrange. |
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[1] http://stu.gnqs.org/diary/gentoo.php/2005/11/10/feeling_blue |
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-- |
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Fabian Groffen |
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Gentoo for Mac OS X Project -- Interim Lead |
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-- |
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gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list |
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