Re: [gentoo-dev] Guidelines for IUSE defaults

[Rich Freeman]

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:40 PM, Michael Orlitzky <mjo@g.o> wrote:
> On 02/02/2017 01:01 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:25 AM, Michael Orlitzky <mjo@g.o> wrote:
>>>
>>> If (base == minimal), then all of the upstream defaults need to be added
>>> to package.use for the upstream-defaults profile. That's bad,
>>
>> I'll go further and say that it is unacceptably bad.
>>
>
> Only if anyone wants an upstream-defaults profile. But nobody's asked
> for one, in contrast with the large number of users who want minimal.
>

People already have one effectively, so they're not going to ask.

But, if it makes you happier, I'll ask for one.  :)

If Gentoo didn't have a reasonable way to get mostly upstream
defaults, I probably wouldn't be using Gentoo.

>
>> I still think that we shouldn't encourage users to lightly deviate
>> from all the upstream defaults.
>
> Deviating from upstream defaults is why we have USE flags in the first
> place. No one really wants the upstream defaults, they want
>
>   (nothing) + (what their profile provides) + (what they enable),

Well, I'm somebody, and I want:

(upstream defaults) + (profile settings) + (what I enable) - (what I disable)

I certainly don't set USE=-*, even on my containers.

>
> If dropping an IUSE default hurts some profile, then stick the default
> in that profile. Nothing breaks, and it's not too much work

There are probably thousands of package+USE combinations in IUSE
statements.  Putting these all into a profile is anything but
straightforward.

I don't want globally-enabled/disabled USE flags in my base profile.
I want the settings that make sense for each specific package, which
requires taking the time to evaluate each package.  This is time that
maintainers have already invested.

I personally have zero-interest in minimal systems.  If others want to
set USE=-* that's great for them, and if somebody wants to create a
profile that sets USE=-* and has some per-package exceptions to fix a
few things, that is also great.  If there are cases where we can do
things a little differently to make life easier on these sorts of
users, we should do that.  However, limiting IUSE defaults just to
settings minimally necessary to get a package to build just makes it
impossible to use Gentoo practically without reviewing a bazillion USE
flags.

There is no reason everybody can't have their own way, but IMO it is
much simpler to do this with a minimal profile.

-- 
Rich