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Hi blubb, |
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|
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> I receive about 120 Mails (spam not |
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> counted) per day (all gentoo-related), and about 110 are relevant to me. |
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> I really don't like the idea of receiving 250 Mails of which 110 are |
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> relevant to me. |
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|
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I agree that no one wants to get too much irrelevant mail. However if |
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there is a single dev list where improvements (and not user problems) |
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are discussed there will usually be several threads that just keep |
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growing. AFAIK Thunderbird (which you appear to be using) supports |
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message folding and threading. So if there are a dozen messages under |
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the XOrg message tree you can quickly tell that they are not for you. I |
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mean that just because there are 100 messages more , does not mean you |
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will need more than 10 seconds to filter them all. |
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|
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> If you, as a PPC user have a security problem with a java plugin,it's |
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> quite easy: File a bug, assign it to the herd you think it is the most |
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> important to that bug and CC the others. Another example: We often get |
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> bugs like "app-foo/bar-1.0 does not work on amd64" that are assigned to |
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> amd64@g.o. After having a look at the error log i see that it is |
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> most likely a arch-independend bug and reassign it to the right herd/guy |
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> and CC amd64@. |
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|
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Ok , if concrete problems are discussed in the Bugzilla (the current |
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practice I believe) the less the chance you will get unwanted mail. |
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|
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> *This* gentoo-dev isn't there for helping users with their problems. |
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|
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I agree. What I meant was that sometimes users have ideas about |
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improving Gentoo (apart from fix bug #####). And such ideas (i think) |
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are for gentoo-dev. |
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|
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> The only purpose is to improve Gentoo. The respective mailing lists |
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> (gentoo-ppc-user, gentoo-java and so on) are. |
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|
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Mind your own example with app-foo/bar-1.0 on amd64. Most bugs (and |
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problems) are arch independent. Especially problems like "How do I use |
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this app" , or "where is this in the gnome menu". And these are the |
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problems a user is likely to ask help for. You can't expect form a user |
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to see the amd64 TCP/IP stack bug when all he knows is that gaim can not |
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connect. I believe that ppc,amd64,x86,etc users (and lists ) have more |
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experience to share than arch specific stuff. |
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|
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> time the more emails you get about stuff you aren't interested in. I |
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> really don't care about java, and i don't care about hardened in general |
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> (well, i care about them if it's a amd64-specific problem :)) |
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|
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I understand. However something currently going on the java list may |
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very well have to do with amd64 , and you may never know about it. |
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|
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> In general, I agree with you, but I don't think that your solution |
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> will bring us the expected improvements. |
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|
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Well , this is an RFC. Fell encouraged to suggest other schemes to |
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improve communication in the gentoo world. |
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|
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Cheers, |
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|
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Ivan Yosifov. |
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|
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On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 13:01 +0100, Simon Stelling wrote: |
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> Hi Ivan, |
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> |
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> Ivan Yosifov wrote: |
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> > Hello Everyone, |
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> > |
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> > First of all - this is just an idea, if my impressions are wrong - |
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> > pardon. |
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> > It is my impression that gentoo has way too many mailing lists wich by |
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> > themselves are not very active. For example I am a |
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> > gentoo-desktop-research subscriber for mounths and have not recived a |
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> > single message. |
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> |
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> Yes, we have a lot of mailing lists. No, most of them aren't that |
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> active, but i don't care if there is much traffic. I fact, i thank God |
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> there is not so much traffic. I receive about 120 Mails (spam not |
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> counted) per day (all gentoo-related), and about 110 are relevant to me. |
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> I really don't like the idea of receiving 250 Mails of which 110 are |
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> relevant to me. |
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> |
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> > I further believe that developer issues are always just developer |
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> > issues. A java-plugin can expose a browser bug. A ppc specific problem |
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> > my be a bug in the common kernel source. There is little reason for |
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> > having a dozen separate lists when the issues discussed on these lists |
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> > are related. As of now for a developer to have a full grasp of what |
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> > ideas are flying about and what problems bother the users most he has to |
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> > subscribe to ALL lists which is a lot of subscibe-me mails. |
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> |
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> If you, as a PPC user have a security problem with a java plugin, it's |
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> quite easy: File a bug, assign it to the herd you think it is the most |
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> important to that bug and CC the others. Another example: We often get |
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> bugs like "app-foo/bar-1.0 does not work on amd64" that are assigned to |
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> amd64@g.o. After having a look at the error log i see that it is |
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> most likely a arch-independend bug and reassign it to the right herd/guy |
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> and CC amd64@. |
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> |
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> > Imagine a PPC user with security problem in the java plugin. Where can |
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> > he discus his problem ? On gentoo-desktop, gentoo-security, gentoo-dev, |
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> > gentoo-ppc-dev, gentoo-ppc-user, gentoo-java or somewhere else? Having |
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> > so many lists with so deeply connected topics is confusing and a waste |
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> > of valuable communication resources. |
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> |
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> I agree, there are cases that are deeply connected, but i don't think a |
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> gentoo-problems list would make it better, because you just can't read |
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> every mail you get. You read what seems important to you, and that's it. |
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> I don't want to filter 90% of the mails i get out and read the oder 10%, |
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> finding out that only 5% are really what i wanted to read ;) |
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> |
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> > I propose the following. There should be a gentoo-announce list for |
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> > GLSA,release announces and whatever everyone must be aware of. There |
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> > should be a gentoo-dev for all development related issues (users having |
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> > problems go here). And there should be a gentoo-user for users that need |
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> > guidance (like how do I do this,where is that...). |
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> |
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> *This* gentoo-dev isn't there for helping users with their problems. The |
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> only purpose is to improve Gentoo. The respective mailing lists |
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> (gentoo-ppc-user, gentoo-java and so on) are. |
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> |
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> > Naturally the traffic on the dev and user list can get high. But no one |
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> > forces the PPC dev to read the X.org threads so this should not be a |
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> > problem. |
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> |
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> Sure. But it forces the PPC dev to filter them out, and that takes more |
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> time the more emails you get about stuff you aren't interested in. I |
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> really don't care about java, and i don't care about hardened in general |
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> (well, i care about them if it's a amd64-specific problem :)) |
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> |
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> In general, I agree with you, but I don't think that your solution will |
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> bring us the expected improvements. |
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> |
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> Greetings, |
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> |
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> blubb |
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|
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|
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-- |
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