Re: [gentoo-dev] Proctors - improve the concept or discard it?

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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Chris Gianelloni wrote:
> > On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 18:10 +0200, Wulf C. Krueger wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, June 6, 2007 05:29:47 PM Grant Goodyear wrote:

>> >> I'm sure they have the best intentions but I've never seen any clear
>> >> guidelines for them. They use their best judgement what to handle and
>> >> what not to but due to language barriers, cultural differences
etc. it's
>> >> difficult to judge.
> >
> > Well, they've been asked to write guidelines for Council approval, as
> > well as changes to the Code of Conduct.  Neither of which have been
> > done.  As it stands now, there are no publicly available guidelines that
> > I am aware of for the proctors.
> >

Yes, there are no approved guidelines. That doesn't mean that there was
no discussion about that. However, during that process, the little
feedback that came from the council seemed to indicate that in the end
those guidelines didn't needed to be approved by the council - the
proctors could just discuss them and present them as a matter of fact.
Chris, I should probably say this in private, but since you were the one
to opt for public discussion, I would like to rekindle your memory that
you decided to abandon the proctors@ alias during the discussion because
you felt you were being attacked - I would argue that you were being
*touchy*. After that, I sent a mail directly to you asking for your
opinion - I never got any reply.

For anyone interested in the type of discussion that was taking place at
the team, at least my contribution, please check the gentoo archives:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-proctors/

>> >> Furthermore, where do we need them? The Forums are moderated by
an, IMHO,
>> >> excellent team. IRC is more or less self-moderated.
>> >> That basically leaves the mailinglists and among those, the only
one that
>> >> *might* arguably need supervision could be -dev.

For the record, the council's reply to the proctors about this was that
the CoC should be enforced *everywhere*.

> > I mean no disrespect to people's age, but I think part of the problem
> > why we have such a hard time, collectively, acting like adults is we
> > aren't adults.  A very good number of our developers are in the high
> > school/college age range.  This means their life experience isn't as
> > high as a more seasoned adult.  They have no real experiences dealing
> > with adults in adult situations.  They're simply used to how things are
> > done with people their age.  It isn't their fault, it is just simply a
> > lack of life experience.  We simply cannot reasonably expect everyone to
> > act like a level-headed thirty year old computer professional.  I have
> > heard people say that our lack of being paid developers compounds this,
> > as we have people from all walks of life.  I don't think that I believe
> > that, but I do know that paid developers tend to be older and more
> > professional.  After all, if they constantly acted like a tool, they'd
> > be fired.
> >

I understand this reasoning and can in part agree with it, although
there's always some exceptions - a few people seem they'll be
mentally 5 year olds, even when they get to their 70s.

- -- Regards, Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel
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