Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Jeroen Roovers <jer@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling locale at emerge output
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:27:06
In Reply to: [gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling locale at emerge output by Ryan Hill
1 On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 02:47:46 -0600
2 Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@g.o> wrote:
4 > > Are you saying you are setting up the tree-wide project that
5 > > automatically translates LC_MESSAGES? Round of applause!
6 >
7 > Nope, but I am raising donations to fund an instructive manual on the
8 > usage of the NEEDINFO resolution.
10 As already explained, requesting information and temporarily closing
11 bug reports happens a lot already, but usually greatly stalls a
12 bug's resolution. Developers have to make time to investigate the
13 problem and lose time when they have to wait for additional information
14 and need to reschedule.
16 > > > For a growing portion of our user base it's not "nice" to see
17 > > > these messages in their native language, it's fucking "necessary".
18 > >
19 > > Another round of applause for the appalling attitude.
20 > >
21 > > Could you elaborate on the need to read error messages in your own
22 > > language? How is the sys-apps/portage translation project doing
23 > > anyway? Still only in Polish, hm? :)
24 >
25 > Que? Are you saying that because portage is in English that people
26 > that don't speak English don't use Gentoo? I would have to disagree.
28 Obvious straw man.
30 > If you think that getting the occasional bug report in a language you
31 > aren't familiar with is annoying,
33 You are obviously unaware of the scale of the problem. Devoting time to
34 a bug becomes a serious problem when requested information takes a day
35 or more to arrive, if at all.
37 > imagine how not being able to get any build output you can read
38 > might feel, especially if the reason is only because some dev
39 > couldn't be bothered to occasionally ask someone to repost an error
40 > message in English.
42 You underestimate the vastness of my imagination.
44 > This reminds me of the time someone wanted to ban inline `emerge
45 > --info` postings in bugzilla (ie. attachments only) because they
46 > found scrolling through them bothersome.
48 I think you mean the time when I was requesting ATs not to post such
49 information on stabilisation bugs just to confirm it was alright to
50 stabilise. You know what? - I'll talk on that obviously tangential
51 argument. That (arch team specific) policy was apparently abandoned,
52 because it doesn't happen now. Perhaps I didn't cry victory on that one
53 --- perhaps I should have specially informed you, since you seem to
54 think this reflects on any future argument. A course in informal
55 logic might do you well.
57 You still haven't elaborated on the need to read build output in
58 non-English, btw. You could have argued for non-English users' rights,
59 or pushed for that LC_MESSAGES auto-translation project (I wasn't
60 kidding), or you could have argued for a bug reporting tool that
61 includes all the right information in the right language automatically.
63 Look here, I am even willing to argue on your side just to possibly
64 extract a meaningful objection to fixing LC_MESSAGES in
65 sys-apps/portage.
67 I can explain my position better on having LC_MESSAGES in the same
68 language as sys-apps/portage appears to non-Polish readers, though.
70 When someone has to read the English error output that sys-apps/portage
71 tacks onto the end of the real error (possibly output long gone from
72 the scroll buffer because it was an early sub-make that failed),
73 doesn't want to go all technical and find that error message, and
74 therefore needs to be asked to attach the entire thing or does that of
75 her own accord, then why should the actual error message
76 ("foo/include/header.h: No such file or directory", in Simplified
77 Chinese) be printed in a language the developer cannot read?
79 The user only cares about using blender or openoffice - the user
80 couldn't care less about the crufty build system of a DEPEND packages
81 needed only at build time, or the language it prints.
84 jer


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling locale at emerge output "Chí-Thanh Christopher Nguyễn" <chithanh@g.o>
[gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling locale at emerge output Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@g.o>