Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling locale at emerge output
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 03:05:49
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling locale at emerge output by Jeroen Roovers
1 On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:26:02 +0200
2 Jeroen Roovers <jer@g.o> wrote:
4 > On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 02:47:46 -0600
5 > Ryan Hill <dirtyepic@g.o> wrote:
6 >
7 > > > Are you saying you are setting up the tree-wide project that
8 > > > automatically translates LC_MESSAGES? Round of applause!
9 > >
10 > > Nope, but I am raising donations to fund an instructive manual on the
11 > > usage of the NEEDINFO resolution.
12 >
13 > As already explained, requesting information and temporarily closing
14 > bug reports happens a lot already, but usually greatly stalls a
15 > bug's resolution. Developers have to make time to investigate the
16 > problem and lose time when they have to wait for additional information
17 > and need to reschedule.
19 Maybe I'm just lucky, but the number of times I've had a bug where such a
20 conversation had to take place could be counted on my toes. I imagine being
21 a bug wrangler you see it far more often, but what are we talking here?
22 1/100? 1/500? Can you compare this to the number of times that someone
23 doesn't include emerge --info, which has a similar halting effect?
25 And yes, the times I have gotten non-english errors in bug reports I have
26 found it annoying. It just hasn't happen often enough to have driven me
27 crazy, which may be the case here.
29 > > Que? Are you saying that because portage is in English that people
30 > > that don't speak English don't use Gentoo? I would have to disagree.
31 >
32 > Obvious straw man.
34 Working for the font team a couple years ago I went to some of the
35 language-specific mailing lists asking if there was any language-specific
36 fonts people required that weren't yet in Gentoo. I had to work through
37 interpreters because many of the people I wanted to talk to didn't speak a
38 lick of English.
40 > > imagine how not being able to get any build output you can read
41 > > might feel, especially if the reason is only because some dev
42 > > couldn't be bothered to occasionally ask someone to repost an error
43 > > message in English.
44 >
45 > You underestimate the vastness of my imagination.
47 Okay... I'm not actually sure what that means.
49 > > This reminds me of the time someone wanted to ban inline `emerge
50 > > --info` postings in bugzilla (ie. attachments only) because they
51 > > found scrolling through them bothersome.
52 >
53 > I think you mean the time when I was requesting ATs not to post such
54 > information on stabilisation bugs just to confirm it was alright to
55 > stabilise.
57 No, it wasn't you. I would have remembered. This person was talking in the
58 general sense. And it was a silly reason, not like yours.
60 > You still haven't elaborated on the need to read build output in
61 > non-English, btw. You could have argued for non-English users' rights,
62 > or pushed for that LC_MESSAGES auto-translation project (I wasn't
63 > kidding), or you could have argued for a bug reporting tool that
64 > includes all the right information in the right language automatically.
66 I _am_ arguing for non-English user's rights. That's the whole reason I'm
67 here, annoying you and whatnot.
69 > When someone has to read the English error output that sys-apps/portage
70 > tacks onto the end of the real error (possibly output long gone from
71 > the scroll buffer because it was an early sub-make that failed),
72 > doesn't want to go all technical and find that error message, and
73 > therefore needs to be asked to attach the entire thing or does that of
74 > her own accord, then why should the actual error message
75 > ("foo/include/header.h: No such file or directory", in Simplified
76 > Chinese) be printed in a language the developer cannot read?
78 See, you're thinking primarily in terms of bugzilla. Like the only reason
79 someone would want to see this stuff is to paste it to a bug report for a
80 developer to look at. I'm saying someone who doesn't speak English at all
81 (who won't be filing bugs btw) might want to be able to understand the error
82 the compiler just dumped on them without needing a translator.
84 But whatever, I appear to be the only person who has a problem with this.
87 --
88 fonts, gcc-porting, it makes no sense how it makes no sense
89 toolchain, wxwidgets but i'll take it free anytime
90 @ EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662


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Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Disabling locale at emerge output Jeroen Roovers <jer@g.o>