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On 02/09/2016 10:03 AM, Kent Fredric wrote: |
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> On 9 February 2016 at 18:27, Anthony G. Basile <blueness@g.o> wrote: |
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>> all the vitriolic attacks i get about eudev come from the gentoo |
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>> community. outside of this community i get praise. |
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> |
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> In case my earlier messages stating a desire to exercise much caution |
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> gave the wrong impression, I just want to state for the record I think |
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> its awesome eudev exists, and I think its awesome other distro's are |
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> using it. |
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> |
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> Just when it comes to "Change the defaults", I want to be certain |
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> about the path we're setting ourselves up for on this very important |
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> component, because here, a change of defaults paves a broader path for |
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> eudev to be a potential leading competition to systemd. |
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If, for any reason, eudev should be abandoned - we can just change the |
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virtual back. One-line change. |
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> |
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> Because if we do that, I feel we must be so sure of ourselves that |
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> eudev can be a profitable choice for at least a moderately long term, |
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> even in the event we get no more support from the systemd codebase. |
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> |
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> Having it in tree and having users who know what they're doing being |
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> able to choose their own risk factors and say "yeah, eudev is the |
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> right choice for what I'm doing" is one thing. |
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> |
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> But stating implicitly that "Hey, this is the default", this needs to |
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> be the *best* recommendation we can make based on all the other |
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> factors and other defaults Gentoo uses. |
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Given the options of {systemd, systemd-udevd standalone, eudev} - |
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Those that choose systemd are not in this discussion. |
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Systemd-udevd standalone is unsupported, with upstream suggesting that |
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they want to remove support for it. |
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Leaves eudev as the only 'sane' option, since we even have an upstream. |
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|
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And it's the 'mainstream' choice. |
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|
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And it wins the popular vote: |
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https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1038696-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-eudev-start-0.html |
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|
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> |
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> Because new users *will* be inclined to pick the default, and |
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> *existing* users of the *current* default are likely to see the |
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> default change, and reason "well, the default has changed, so the new |
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> default is the new best thing", and will be inclined to switch. |
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Existing installs won't have a visible change. Since a provider of |
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virtual/udev is installed nothing changes, even if we shuffle the |
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virtual providers around. |
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> |
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> And the worst thing we could have is a combination of bad defaults |
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> that leads new users to have a poor first experience because they used |
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> all the default recommendations, and their system made magic smoke |
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> instead of booting. |
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> |
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> In short, to change *this* default, it seems pertinent that we *know* |
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> that the change we're making *is* better and a more reliable long-term |
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> choice than the *current* default, and if there is *any reasonable |
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> doubt*, we should delay changing until that reasonable doubt is |
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> expunged. |
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> |
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Since eudev is a drop-in replacement that uses a good part of the |
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original udev codebase - if you notice any deviation it's either a bug |
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(which we should fix) or udev misbehaves (e.g. persistent network |
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naming, which is a wonderful way to make people with more than zero |
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network cards angry) |
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|
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And again: It would only affect what gets installed if you do "emerge -C |
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udev eudev; emerge virtual/udev" |
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(and, as a positive side-effect, changes the udev implementation of |
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stage3, which again only affects the default on *new* installs) |
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|
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I don't see any serious doubts, apart from "we're deviating from |
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upstream" - but that's exactly what I want to fix! Yes, we deviate |
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*now*, we should not do that. And there's reasonable doubt that we can |
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keep sys-fs/udev going. |
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I like it when people violently agree with me :) |